Visit us on facebook

It is currently Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:19 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 10:57 am 
Offline
New Member

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:23 am
Posts: 3
Location: New Bern, NC
I just bought a S&W mod 60, .357mag. It has no lock but it does have MIM hammer and trigger. I would like to change these parts. Can anyone tell me part numbers for stainless steel trigger assembly or trigger and small parts that will replace the MIM. I don't care if the trigger is different size or grooved. I intend to round and polish it anyway. I also need to know part numbers of stainless flat hammer assembly or parts necessary to replace the MIM hammer. do you know of any after market producers? I looked through the forum and found lots of discussion about the swap but no hard data. Thanks in advance for any help forthcoming.
Semper Fi,
Master Sergeant of Marines Bill Wishon (ret.)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:05 pm 
Offline
Members

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:19 pm
Posts: 98
I have tried herein to answer your question as completely as practicable, but doing so makes for a long post. For this reason, I have omitted a few details and provided instead a current factory reference. I hope the rest proves worth reading.

When replacing S&W MIM internals with forged parts, there's some good news and some bad news.

First the bad news:
• In principle, the lockwork parts should be fitted (i.e., the parts might or might not "drop in")
• In addition to the hammer and trigger, several additional small parts would be required for the conversion from MIM to forged
• There is no slot in the new-style S&W frame for the old-style hammer nose
• There may be other, equally serious obstacles to the conversion

Now, the good news:
• The S&W Factory Parts List for Revolvers is available online in ADOBE PDF format.
• That same parts list shows the "Obsolete" (forged) trigger -- see below
• It also includes what appears to be the "Obsolete" (forged) hammer -- ditto

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Part Number / Cost / Revision / Description / Comments (mine)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
225950000 / $42.77 / X / OBSOLETE TRIGGER .347 SERRATED / Revision + description implies forged
039140000 / $48.41 / X / HAMMER ASSY, BLUE .240 / Ditto
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note: "(Revision) X=STD" (and "STD" implies "dash zero", or original design/mfg, which in turn implies forged)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I didn't look through the list for all of them, but it appears the associated small parts are also available (e.g., the "hammer nose"; aka, firing pin). However, I would assume that all these old-style parts are largely incompatible with the new-style frames (some parts may in fact interchange, but others clearly do not)

Perhaps the best news is that you can call S&W toll free (800-331-0852) to inquire further.

If I were in your shoes, then with parts list in hand (or on screen), I would probably try calling the "Parts Department" about the necessary parts and their cost/availability. If I didn't get warm fuzzies when speaking with them, I would listen politely and obtain what information I could, then call back and speak to someone in the S&W Performance Center.

Another option of course would be to turn the job over to one the many talented gunsmiths on board here at LTW. I am nearly certain you could at least obtain a referral.

I would also carefully consider whether going this route (replacing S&W MIM internals with forged parts) is really necessary. I'm no rocket scientist, but modern MIM is a far cry from pot metal, and none of the internals of an S&W revolver bears the kind of load that a 1911 slide stop does.

It is true you might feel a slight degree of "sponginess" in the single-action let-off of the MIM hammer/sear, but the ability to do so requires a pretty darn "sensitive" trigger finger. In addition, the (stock) DA pull might well feel a bit "softer," but for some shooters this translates as "smoother" (which, depending on the style/mode of operation, is usually seen as advantageous in DA shooting).

Last, I must also say that I do not think the conversion is possible much less practicable, and I have pretty near lived and breathed S&Ws for more than thirty years (albeit as mere end-user/enthusiast, not as an armorer). Then again, where there's a will, there very often is a way (which is why I said a lot more than just "no way" here).

Hope this helps.

-AC

PS: I'll stick my neck out a just bit further to add this: Many believe that, independent of the materials involved, the SA engagement surfaces of S&W revolver actions are best left alone. In other words, with respect to the SA pull, WYGI..WYG (i.e., what you get is...what you get). I could be wrong on this so YMMV (and perhaps others more knowledgeable might chime in here...)

PPS: IMO and experience, J-frames typically exhibit the "worst" actions among modern (post-WWII) S&W revolvers. It seems many are under-timed and/or they exhibit relatively poor SA and/or DA trigger pulls.

PPPS: I am unaware of any aftermarket-manufactured parts for this application/conversion, and I do not believe there are any alternate sources for OEM except for resellers (e.g., Brownells).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:10 am 
Offline
New Member

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:23 am
Posts: 3
Location: New Bern, NC
Thanks so much for the info, AC. You exceeded any expectations I had for a response. Obviously you spent a lot of time preparing your post and I appreciate it. After reading what you had to say I believe my prudent path will be to leave the revolver as is and shoot the heck out of it. Again, thanks for the education.
BW


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:37 pm 
Offline
Members

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:19 pm
Posts: 98
Glad to be of help.

I thought of one more thing that might prove relevant: The S&W Performance Center has done a few N-Frame models with forged hammer and triggers on the new-style frames (i.e., N-frames with floating firing pins). The latest of these that I have seen are the Model 325 Thunder Ranch revolvers in .45 ACP (which is a new model that also has the internal locking system).

I am unsure whether the Performance Center has done any J-Frames with forged hammer and triggers on the new-style frames, but it seems at least possible that they have. As such, the conversion you had in mind might also be possible so calling the Performance Center to find out might still be a good idea.

Of course, your idea of keeping and enjoying your M60 as-is also has considerable merit. Given the probable cost of the conversion (which, with shipping charges, would likely exceed $200) and the inherent utility of a good pre-lock M60 (whether MIM or not), I would almost certainly do the same.

-AC


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:30 am 
Offline
Board Member
Board Member

Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:30 pm
Posts: 3852
Location: MI
I overheard in a recent class that when (S&W professional shooter) Jerry Miculek gets a new gun from S&W to use in competition, the first thing he does is not change out the MIM parts-- he goes over things briefly with a stone and puts them back in-- the same MIM parts.

I'm not sure they're so bad. I'm not really convinced that MIM is all bad in a 1911, and I think the revolver parts take less of a beating.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:20 pm 
Offline
New Member

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:23 am
Posts: 3
Location: New Bern, NC
Thanks, Ned. I am not so worried about the quality of the MIM parts. I wanted to bob the hammer and I was concerned with asthetics. I did bob the hammer and refinished it with cold blue. It doesn't look as good as a bright stainless hammer against the bead blasted gun but it doesn't look too bad. Thanks for the info.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group