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 Post subject: Stoeger Luger
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:03 am 
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Location: Fond du Lac, WI
This may be sacreligious on a 1911 site, however I have a Stoeger Luger that has me baffled. Can someone tell me something of this, or direct me to someone who can. Obviously year and ballbark value would be nice.

Description:
American Eagle crest on the chamber and DWM on top of rear toggle. The right side of the receiver is marked A.F. STOEGER INC over NEW YORK. The right side of the frame is marked LUGER-REGISTERED U.S. PATENT OFFICE. Front of frame is marked 78XX above an inspector mark(?) that looks like a cursive "t" and GERMANY below the inspector(?) mark. The upper safety lever area is marked GESICHERT, nothing on the lower lever area. The underside of the barrel is stamped with a single Crown "N" proof over matching serial number 78XX. It has the Crown "N" proofs on the side of the breech block and the left side of the barrel extension. There is a serial number "01" or "10" stamped on underside of the side plate and the rear of the toggle. The pistol has a blue finish with straw colored safety lever, trigger, take-down lever and magazine release. The sear spring and connecting pins are straw colored. The magazine has a nickel plated body and a wooden base.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:27 am 
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You did not state if your pistol is in 9mm or .22 cal., Stoeger had versions in both calibers and it makes a big difference in values. If you pick up a copy of The Blue Book of Gun Values, it usually gives some decent history on these and a ballpark figure. Also doing a quick Google search pulled up quite a bit of information on them as well. Best wishes in your search!--John

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:34 pm 
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John,

Its a 9mm. My problem comes in with the research I've done and what an internet appraiser (yeah, I know now) named David Hardesty told me:

Post-WWII Lugers have been manufactured by Mauser Werke in Oberndorf, W. Germany during the 1970s, and by both Stoeger Industries and Mitchell Arms (see separate listing under Mitchell Arms) in recent years. Earlier Mauser importation was by Precision Imports, Inc. located in San Antonio, TX and Interarms of Alexandria, VA (and so marked on these guns).

My gun has no such marks. Using John Walter's - The Luger - I've found the following:
1. The American Eagle crest was used since 1901.
2. Stoeger became sole importer in 1922.
3. They stopped their association with DWM in 1939.
4. My S/N is 78XX and of the "t" series.
5. Gesichert is on the upper of safety. Nothing under. Consistent with commercial guns.
6. The Crown N is of the thin cross style used after 1911-12 and until 1939.
7. It has the stock lug and lanyard loop.

None of the above indicates that this gun was manufactured in the 1970s. While I can't find any site listing serial numbers, the gun would have had to be between 1912 and 1939.

Therein lies my dilemna - 1930ish or 1970s! That's a big deal.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:24 pm 
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Yes...it definately makes a big difference! It sounds like you are way ahead of anything I could offer as assistance, was just trying to help. As a big fan of the beautiful old toggle guns....I'd LOVE to see some pictures of this beauty of yours, regardless of what her age is, as I'm sure many of the other gentlemen and scholars here would appreciate her too! Wish you the best of luck in your journey, my friend!--John

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:12 am 
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A good photo or two would give us a lot of clues to solve this predicament.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:41 am 
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Were not all the very late production Swiss pattern frames?

I'm no expert but to the extent that I recall correctly my own interest at the time the very late new production was on surviving tooling limited to Swiss pattern grip frames and pre-war the Swiss pattern was limited to the Swiss?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:19 pm 
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I think you may be on to something. The Luger book he left me with the gun had a lot of hightlighting about Swiss made Lugers. I thought it was just because he was going to go "shop" for a Swiss model as well.

I did find a date span for my gun. Mine is the "t" series. It was between 1930 and 1934. The site was from Russia which at first didn't make much sense to me until I realized that the Russians occupied most of Germany for 40+ years after WWII.

http://kalashnikov.guns.ru/wwwboard/boa ... /1468.html

Mauser Lugers - Commercial production - During the years 1930 through 1934 - The serial suffix letters : "s", " t" and "u" - An order by the firm A. F. Stoeger, of New York - Stoeger sole agent for DWM's after Hans Tauscher had left...

I promise to have pics mid next week. Lord, do I hate computers, but I do love the internet.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:23 pm 
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dsteh...glad you are onto the right track now....can't wait to see some pictures of this beauty! As for the Russian angle on these, reminds me of a nice Luger I used to own with ALL german markings, plus some cyrillic markings from capture. The safety was marked in cyrillic among other markings, but still had the mauser banner on it on top. Pistol had been refinished, but was a nice shooter and interesting conversation piece....had to sell it a couple years ago to my buddy Bill Alexander at Alexander Arms..who is now thouroughly enjoying it! :roll:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:36 pm 
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JR,

Check out this site, particularly paragraph 3.1. Good history on this pistol.

http://luger.gunboards.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5020

1.3. Estimated quantities of two lines Stoeger Lugers
Still’s Weimar Lugers (page 13, Table 1a.):
Produced 1919 – 1921 (five digit DWM Lugers)
500 Stoeger two lines, including some American Eagles, SN range 76515 - 89836
1,800 Lugers with Safe and Loaded likely imported by Stoeger in 1922, SN range 89734 – 91511
Produced 1921 - 1928 . (Alphabet DWM Lugers)
100 Stoeger two lines with American Eagle, suffixes n, p and q
100 Stoeger two lines –
Produced 1929 – 1930 (29 DWM Lugers)
200 Stoeger two lines with American Eagle, suffixes t and u.

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 Post subject: AF Stoeger Pics
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:05 pm 
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If it first you don't succeed, give up for a month and try it again. I believe its 1929 or '30 given the S/N. Any thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Stoeger Luger
PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:50 pm 
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On a live and learn note, I sent more professional pics to noted Luger expert Jan C Still. This was a Mauser s/n meaning it was assembled by Mauser using DWM parts they had when they bought the company. Nothing wrong with that, however, the 3rd line on the Luger trends down at the end (right side of gun). Mauser would not have been so careless. This line was added. Ironically, it would have been worth more as a "2 line" Luger.

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 Post subject: Re: Stoeger Luger
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 5:37 am 
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The less a collector and more a shooter it is, the better! I mean, woulda been nice and all to have it bring you $20K or something but once over that, you have a bit of shootable history and a very interesting design. Always wanted one.... always heard they take good stout ammo to function.


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 Post subject: Re: Stoeger Luger
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 5:47 pm 
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As a "shooter" is was worth $700. I had it previous to Jon's comments displayed at WI gun shows for $4500 based upon blue book value at the time. After Jon's comments a guy who previously had asked about the gun bought it for $3250. We both were quite delighted at the sell price. I thought I should have felt bad about it but that only lasted for a few hours.

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