ltwguns.com

which do you find more stable?

holsters with attachment points on the gun or holsters w/ attachment points outboard of the gun.

DN1911,
Though you didn't specify OWB or IWB, let me start by saying the best holster in the world is useless if it is mounted on a cheap flimsy belt. The belt often has more to do with stability than the type of holster. Your carry gear should be thought of as a complete system, and it needs strong foundation (belt) to work properly. I use to think this was gimic sales pitch used by holstermakers until I started making my own, and after making my first double-thickness belt and trying, Icould not believe the difference! This has been my experience with similar comments from customers trying it for the first time. I have even gone so far as to lend a shop belt to local potential customers to try out to see the difference it makes before buying. All order a belt after trying it.
That said, Belt selection may make less of a difference with IWB than OWB, especially with the fore and rear belt loop IWB styles. These type do tend to support and evenly distribute the weight of the pistol better.
When I first started making my In-Cognito IWB (photo in the Accessories For Sale section) I tried it with a flimsy braided belt and it did work sufficiently. With an IWB the waistband of the pants is putting pressure against the holster and aiding in supporting it, but I generally feel the front and rear loop styles offer the best support. However, Lou Alessi's new PCH IWB is receiving tremendous reviews here and on other forums, and it is of body-mounted loop design. It does have a front wing of leather for added stability however. A front and rear loop IWB is generally more concealable also because thickness is reduced by moving the snaps to the sides, and the holster tends to wrap around and conform to the body.
With OWB designs, a pancake style with front and rear loops is generally more concealable than a design with a tunnel loop sewn to the rear body of the holster, because the holster is pulled into the body under belt tension front and rear and conforms to the body. Stability isn't as much an issue with different OWB styles, once again as long as the proper belt is used. Belt width should match the belt slot width on the holster. That is the greatest factor concerning OWB stability. If you wear a 1 3/4 inch belt slot holster on a 1 1/4 inch belt, do not expect it to be stable. If your holster slots are 1 1/2 inch wide, your belt should be 1 1/2 inch wide also.
Sorry for getting long-winded. Hope this helps!

_________________
http://www.garritysgunleather.com
"He who works with his hands is a labourer, he who works with his hands and his head is a craftsman, he who works with his hands, his head, and his heart is an artist."
(St Francis of Assisi)

I’ll echo Mark's comments about a proper belt... one cannot overlook that.

In reference to IWB holsters... I’ve worn both styles and, while my preference is for a holster without offset loops, I have personally found no major stability advantage with either design. This is of course dependant on proper construction of the rig, as I’ve seen quite a few lesser holsters where the loops are placed directly over the holster body that lacked the stability of the original designs they were copies of.

One thing I forgot to mention regarding IWBs and stability; I think stability of an IWB is generally measured in how secure the rig feels inside the pants and wants to stay put. The deeper inside the waistband an IWB sits, while still not compromising a good shooting grip while holstered, the more secure it will feel. An IWB that rides too high will feel like it wants to topple up and over the waistband. This is especially true with short barreled top heavy guns (HK P7M13 and Glock 26/27). An IWB should ride with most of triggerguard under the belt-line to feel secure. I have seen IWBs on the market where most if not all of the triggerguard is above the belt-line, and these just ride too high for concealment and stability. Even with a 5" 1911 your going to get that "topple over the waistband" feeling, if not actually experience it.

_________________
http://www.garritysgunleather.com
"He who works with his hands is a labourer, he who works with his hands and his head is a craftsman, he who works with his hands, his head, and his heart is an artist."
(St Francis of Assisi)

thanks for the info. my belt is a Wilderness Tactical Instructor belt. i think it is an inch and three quarter. couldn't see paying $100 plus for leather when this seems to work very well.

as far as my selection on new holster, still have not made one. but i think i'm going to jump on the Alessi PCH bandwagon real soon. just hate buying something with out trying one first. the only concern i have is the thickness with the body mounted loops.

also, i'm looking for an IWB. this is the main way i carry my guns for concelment reasons. i do carry OWB in the winter time when i am constantly wearing a coat of some sort.

I have been carrying for quite awhile here in Michigan and a strong belt and good holster are very important. What I find out out to be the biggest factor is atitude. If one walks around all day worrying if they have been spotted then most likely they have.

If you just go on about your business and don't give it a thought and most folks won't pay you any attention. If you walk around pulling on your shirt or have your arm hanging in an unnatural position people pick up on it quick.

Last week end my wife and I went to Wal-mart and I was carrying a 686 2 1/2" barrel in a OWB holster. I was wearing a light jacket and we got by the pharmacy and I took my jacket off and checked my blood pressure. It was a bit stuffy in the store so I just left my jacket in the cart. We shopped for about an hour and went out the checkout and no one ever even gave me a second look that I noticed at least.

I never even realize what I had done till after I got home. Of course my wife thought the police would come knocking on the door but, we live in an open carry state so I wasn't to concerned.

It was not intentional and the simple fact I didn't make notice of it I don't think anyone else did either. It is not a habit I have to open carry and it was a simple case of forgetfulness on my part but it kind of proves a point. If we don't call attention to ourselves most others won't either.

Gary

First of all , I'd like to make a comment on belts and holster fit . While I have never used a holster with 1 3/4" slots with a 1 1/4" belt , I'm sure that you'd get some play and that stability would be reduced . I do however , regularly switch my Alessi and Bulman rigs back and forth between 1 1/4" and 1 1/2" belts . Most of those holsters are made with 1 1/2" slots or loops . I personally NEVER notice any play , however , I do admit to choosing a 1 1/2" belt for training when many draws are going to be the order of the day . A 1 1/2" belt is a better support system . It just isn't always my choice for ALL modes of dress .

On another subject , Gary Morris , I live in Michigan too , albeit in the Greater Detroit area . While I know that Michigan is technically an open carry state , for all practical purposes it is not ! You might get away with that in Coldwater , most likely everyone thought you were a police officer , but in my area a real cop would find out if you had a badge . Open carry is frowned upon STRONGLY in populated areas . Charges range from brandishing ( I know you weren't) to disturbing the peace . Of course CCW holders can only carry a concealed pistol , and it's not supposed to print at all . I researched this subject thoroughly before we were a shall issue state , polling police officers and attorneys . The consensus was that at the very least it was going to be expensive to defend , even if you weren't convicted of a crime , and it was frowned upon by all involved if you were not a cop . In liberal communities , juries were not going to be sympathetic either according to those I asked and queried . My one and only incident of that nature , happened one night at my local coney island . I was sitting at the counter , eating a chili dog , and as it was winter and I had a heavy coat on , I removed it to eat . I totally forgot about the Kimber Ultra Carry in the Alessi CQC-S . That's easy to do with that holster . A cop came in and sat two seats down and promptly asked what department I was with . When I replied that I was a railroad engineer he asked if I was affiliated with ANY police force . I answered no and he began to aggressively berate and chide me for the exposed weapon. I argued , maintained a very polite civil attitude , and cited the open carry law . This seemed to further annoy him and he went on to warn me that there better not be a next time or I would be explaining that to the judge , who he assured me also took a dim view of any more guns in the area . It was clear that I was not going to convince him and that he was also anti-CCW. He plainly told me that I would be arrested the next time . I haven't done it again...Tom

I am not going to disagree with you and in a lot of are's it would be grounds for at least a good tongue lashing. I merely stated my story as it happened to me and yes Coldwater is a small town which does make a lot of difference.

I do not advocate open carry and I am sorry if it appeared that way.

Gary

I think what Gary was getting at, or a least a good point to be made from his post, is how totally oblivious people in the general public really are!

When I was on-duty in PA, we got a call from the manager of the local 20 screen movie complex to check on a male subject carrying in the open in the theater. In PA you must carry concealed on a CCW. This guy was wearing a polished stainless Taurus PT99 (big gun) in a black nylon Uncle Mikes OWB holster (big ugly holster) against a white dress shirt and khaki pants completely exposed; no concealing garment at all. Should stand out pretty well. He was in line at the concession stand in the very well-lit lobby on a crowded Saturday afternoon matinee with people interacting around him as normal. No panic, no groups of people pointing to him as we walked in; absolutely nothing out of the ordinary. Even when we asked to step out of line to talk to us, I think the people around us pondered what was wrong. I truely believe to this day that most of the people there did not realise he was carrying!

Folks carrying concealed often worry about their gun printing under clothes, or new leather squeaking, and while I make every effort to build the most concealable holsters possible; I truely believe the genral public wouldn't notice such minor things as squeak and print. Hell, I believe half of them wouldn't notice an exposed MP5 strapped to your side!

(And the answer is "No" for the smart-asses amongst you! I did not give the subject in the above incident a Garrity's Gunleather business card!)

_________________
http://www.garritysgunleather.com
"He who works with his hands is a labourer, he who works with his hands and his head is a craftsman, he who works with his hands, his head, and his heart is an artist."
(St Francis of Assisi)

This is not true. Because a person has a CPL, does not mean that person can only carry a gun concealed. The permits allow them to carry concealed vs. open. A CPL holder can carry openly in Michigan. Although I have carried openly here in the U.P. I don't do it very often. Also carrying openly in a holster in plain view is not considered brandishing according to then AG Granholm in one of her opinions. But you are right, you'll probably have to spend alot of money to defend it

Dave

Actually , anyone can carry a firearm openly according to the law . You don't need a CPL to do it , but again , you better have an attorney on retainer...Tom

wow that got a little off topic. I haven't picked a holster yet but will be doin so soon. finally purchased a gun worthy of a nice holster such as those form the makers on here.