ltwguns.com

Mr. Rogers from Rogers precision doesn't know it yet but he's going to be building a gun for me

(someone told me he was the best in Arizona)

Anyways what is the preffered 1911 for a full house build? I would prefer one with no forward cocking serrations.

Should I spend 700 bones on a new Colt or get an old used one for 400? I want a USA made frame and slide (heard SA is made in Brazil).

_________________
Never pass up the opportunity to shoot somebody elses ammo.

Congrads & welcome to the addiction. But first might I suggest you talk to Mr. Rogers ~ last time I heard he was not taking in any smithing work at present to try and catch up on his backlog - that may have changed. Being one of the best comes with some baggage, i.e. popularity As for base guns either a Springfield or a new Retro S70 Colt are great base guns, it really depends on if you like the Colt Rollmark and the Colt history or not especially for a full house gun as really all of the original gun that will remain is the slide and frame.

_________________
I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them. - John Bernard Books

Welcome aboard!

I was also under the impression that Chuck isn't accepting work right now. I could be wrong (don't laugh... it happened once before ).

As far as a base gun, I don't think you can go wrong with a Colt or a Springfield. As far as Colt's go, I'm sure the nod would have to go to the Series 70 reproductions, but Don Williams currently has two NRM Series 80 guns he's working on for me. Colton Bagnoli over at the Yost Bonitz Emporium is currently building me (and about done?) a 1* Enhanced gun on a Springfield GI model. Both brands are excellent choices.

Tough call, lot of good 'smiths in Arizona. I'd say there must be something in the water, but there ain't any, is there?

Check his backlog, it might be outrageous, and he might not even be taking new jobs. Some 'smiths have waiting lists to get on their waiting list...

Anyway, on to the question. It really depends. The easiest way to the best gun is to build on a bare frame and slide, not a base gun like a Colt. That way the 'smith doesn't have to fix the Colt factory's mistakes (they can be numerous), and gets the perfect fit for everything since the frame & slide start oversized. However, custom jobs built on Colts have more "asthetic character," for want of a better way to put it, and for this reason the current Series 70 reproductions or WWI/WWII repros tend to be favored by alot of 'smiths for "ultimate" custom jobs.

You can get an awesome job both ways, it is more a question of what you want than anything else. I've had 2 custom Colts, and am waiting on a built-from-scratch custom job on a Caspian frame & slide. I went with the Caspian because I wanted a particular set of markings on the gun and a custom serial # (it is a sort of commemorative piece).

For me, the ultimate base gun would be a pre-Series 70 commercial Colt, with the current Series 70 repro being a close second.

_________________
Sean Smith
"Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that?" -Jack Burton, Big Trouble in Little China

I think I know the answer but I'm going to ask anyhow just so I am clear and it may be some others aren't clear about this also. All 3 replys say a Colt 70 series repro would be a good base gun, but an original 70 series isn't mentioned. Could someone explain why a repro is good and an original is not?

Really comes down to QC!!! The original S70 guns are questionable, some had bad lines, bad rollmarks, some may look perfect and then once the Smith has them to work on they discover problems. Steve Bailey recently did a S70 for me and had a hell of a time with blueing issues and rollmark / polishing all due to poor QC control back in the day. He made a beauty out of it in the end but Im sure he pulled some hair out and cussed me more than a little for sending him that gun. The new repros are supposedly excellent from everything I have heard and read, less problems, less time, happier smiths That is not to say dont use them just be forewarned. I have a couple still with Steve and a couple with Chuck and I have my fingers crossed when they hit the bench there will be no problems from a QC standpoint. I also have a couple in the safe that if there are problems I will sell to finance repro S70 builds instead..........

_________________
I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them. - John Bernard Books

The new one has more consistent quality, and the price is about the same.

_________________
Sean Smith
"Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that?" -Jack Burton, Big Trouble in Little China

Mr. Rogers is certainly ONE of the best in Arizona, along with Mr. Yost and Mr. Williams. These three gentlemen, IMHO, are the best of the best, not only in Arizona, but in the entire country! SRT

That is what I was thinking I would hear. I've heard the issues with lines and finish before and I know they are important issues when doing a full custom. So a Series 70 is probably not a good choice for a full custom gun, but what about for a base gun for a reliability upgrade. I know the first thing that has to go is the collet bushing and barrel, but what about the rest, frame, slide, hammer, sear and maybe pins. The fact that the cost of a repro and an original are the same is a non-issue to me. I bought the original in 79 for $229 and have shot it alot over the years, but it is getting tired looking and I am thinking new barrel and bushing, sights, reliability package and refinish.

If the work you are doing doesnt require any refinishing or reblueing then Id send in your original S70 but if you do some slide to frame fit or new sights and you have to polish and reblue the slide then you may end up with half a rollmark or uneven lines, blueing issues etc. If its a carry gun then it probably doesnt matter as it will get worn anyways - right? I lost some of my rollmark on one of my original S70s when it was redone but that just makes it all the easier to slip it into leather without worry IMO

_________________
I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them. - John Bernard Books

update to my original post.

Mr. rogers has a waiting list 2-3 years long

looks like i may go the semi-custom route...... I'm one of those instant gratification people.....

_________________
Never pass up the opportunity to shoot somebody elses ammo.

Frost,

How long of a wait is good for you? While 2-3 years may be too much for you, you do have other options aside from semi-customs. I doubt you'll be as happy with your gun if you had high hopes of a custom crushed by a wait list and went the quicker route. While the high end factory pieces can be nice, but they're far from unique, and it won't ever really be yours and yours alone. You might go to the range and find one or two just like it.

~Jim Keeney

_________________
"I'd rather die on my feet than keep living on my knees." - Emiliano Zapata, Mexican Revolutionary

Frost what Jim said is exactly correct. Put your name down on Chuck's list now so you are set and then think about other options, there are several incredible smiths who contribute here that you could get a custom from. Last I heard Yost - Bonitz only had a 9-12 month wait which in the world of custom smiths at this level of quality is probably the shortest wait time you are going to find! If that wait is still too long for you then consider picking up one of the Yost *1 that Steve posts in the for sale forum, he seems to add one down there about once a month that will be the quickest and you will have zero regrets buying one of those.

I have both Rogers and Yost guns that I shoot and I have stock guns in line in their shops and like you I hate waiting but I wouldnt for even a second consider a semi custom over dealing with the wait, not after having shot the guns they have made for me and not after having talked to and gotten to know Steve Bailey and Chuck Rogers.

_________________
I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them. - John Bernard Books

When I am waiting for a gun to be finished, I find the best way to pass the time is to buy more base guns.

My wife has serious doubts about my technique, but I told her it was cheaper then therapy. Being in Los Angeles, I figured that was as good an arguement as I needed.

Don't lower your standards.

_________________
Jeff

Well, it isn't really true that a old Series 70 isn't a good base for a custom gun, it just takes more work (on average) to get the cosmetics 100% than some other options. There is nothing wrong with the most fundamental stuff (e.g. the qualtiy of the steel), and truth be told alot of the stock Series 70 guns are pretty nice in their own right.

_________________
Sean Smith
"Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that?" -Jack Burton, Big Trouble in Little China

Bob Rodgers just finished an older Series 70 for me that which turned out to have a major problem with the front strap. There was a ditch about .050" deep across the upper third of the strap. Apparently done at the Colt factory, when the pistol was manufactured. Pete Single saved the day on this pistol. He filled the ditch with weld, reshaped it, and checkered it at 25LPI. His repair was invisible, even while the gun was still in the white according to Bob!
Pete said in commenting on the problem, “About 3 out of 10 Series 70 frames are like this. I suspect it was the same operator that did the buff job, maybe the guy on 2nd shift.”
The pistol turned out looking great, but beware of older series 70’s

_________________
Russ

Frost,

Welcome aboard, make yourself at home! I strongly suggest that you discuss the base gun question with the smith you are having build your pistol. Not all pistolsmiths will work on all brands of pistols, due to their own technical, professional, and/or personal preferences. Also, not every pistolsmith views frame/slide kits as the "answer". Have fun with your custom build!

That's Petey all right!!!

_________________
Stan Chen Customs
http://www.chencustoms.com

Are you guys talking of Rodgers Pistolsmithing out of MountainHome, AR?

Bob Rodgers Pistolsmithing out of MountainHome, AR is who did my pistol.

_________________
Russ