ltwguns.com

im hoping to get some replies from some of the smiths on the forum. i guess im looking for answers to a couple of questions...

is one flat out better than the other?

what are the advantages/disadvantages of both sytles.
(including, fit, wear, accuracy ect.)

thanks for the help. i was just curious after seeing neds recent pics of the cco he built and is bringing to shot this year...

Great Question.

I've wanted to know the answer for years!

I'd say it comes within 5% of being just a personal preference thing. One aspect, many bull I see arenot made right. They have a simpleconical shape and that can be a problem as is lets the barrel drop in front too much as the gun is feeding. The back end rises then and can bind up with the slide's fwd motion. A better form is where just the top is relieved for locking clearance.

I don't think you'll notice an accuracy dif..... and probably no tthe theoretical recoil absorbtion ofthe heavier bull barrel.

ned, are their any barrel makers that make them "right" as you described with just a top relief??

Hey Guy's,

This is a question I have asked before and all most all answers are "Go with the barrel bushing". I think a bull barrel with the Briley reverse plug on a 45 ACP commander size 1911 looks awesome. I guess it's what you prefer in a look then the performance of either. When it comes down to it,
most pro's I asked say the barrel bushing for depenability and ease of take down.

Here are some considerations to help choose. If it's a gun that is carried all day, a bushing barrel with a GI spring guide and plug is probably a good pick for your comfort.

If the gun's use is in a venue where the speed in which you can deliver instant follow up shots is an advantage, a bull barrel with a FLGR is the best choice. The extra weight will dampen muzzle lift and soften felt recoil to a varying degree, depending on bore size. The more weight out front, the more the dampening effect. The larger the caliber the less barrel wall thickness and the less the effect.

Taken to an extreme, a gun that is really muzzle-heavy creates problems swinging from target to target in both starting and stopping. All that extra weight takes more effort to get moving and has more inertia to brake to a stop on the next target.

My own compromise for carry is a LW Commander with a Schuemann .45 ACP bull barrel and a S/S FLGR.

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The grand essentials to happiness in this life are something to do, something to love and something to hope for.

If It helps you any, your question is not new. back in the late 80s when i had just started in the business, i spent a great deal of money trying to answer that question among others. i will give you my take if it helps. i will assume that we are talking about two basic types of bull barrel, the straight cone and the offset cone that has a straight bottom if you will.If you use a reverse cone without some sort of support at the front of the barrel, it will be almost impossible to get the gun to operate properly and / or feed right. hence the support plate etc on Wilson type guns with this set up. the offset cone with the top relief if you will, is supported by the slide during cyclic operation. incidently, we found back then, using a breach block, that even Colt barrels gave sub 2 inch groups at 25-50 yards. the fit is the most critical-moreso than your choice of barrel. a bit of trivia and ill quit.. lol..Ray Herriott of centaur systems designed the offset cone type system way back in the days of detonics..old is new again...and i believe that Will Schuemann worked either with him or for him..hence the repeat of that design in his barrels...

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cvwinabq@live.com
Rio Rancho New Mexico

"I like double barrels....Aprilia, Ducati, and sxs rifles"

well, just about everything i own at the current is intended for carry. about the only gun i have that is not (but could be ) is a glock 34, i use soley for competition.

i agree on having NOT having a flgr on a carry pistol. (easier to operate one handed ect. without one) but when you think about it. just about all of the other pistols have a flgr!lol. glock, kahr, sig, ect. ect. so the point is kinda moot......

thanks for the help..

Chuck, I always felt the Centaur barrels were way, way undernoticed. Man they were stunningly shiny on the inside, weren't they?

C.rod, I could not list the barrels that are made right and wrong, I do few enough of them that I really don't know. The BarSto on my recently posted CCO was done right-- Wilson bulls are-- heck, maybe thay all are these days, not sure. The bind-up phenomenon is more pronounced with the shorter-barreled guns.

Chuck, I read you were a moldmaker, that's me too. Tell us about yourself sometime when you have the chance, eh?

Ned, ray was one of the all time underated geniuses of guns. he used to rifle his barrels stanging up in a press he designed. anyways, in brief i had a brief moment in the limelight about 15 years ago and had the good fortune of meeting or working with most of the legends in this industry. i guess my biggest claim to fame outside of never being in AH, is that i built the gun for LAYNE SIMPSON for the cover of his book. " the custom government model pistol". I helped him with that book and during that period of time got around th ipsc arena quite often. i could share some funy stories...and i will....lol. p.s. many of rays designs are just coming to light in the last few years and its been really interesting to see that happen.

_________________
http://www.warnerpistols.com/
cvwinabq@live.com
Rio Rancho New Mexico

"I like double barrels....Aprilia, Ducati, and sxs rifles"

....im not inarticulate...i just type terrible.....lol

_________________
http://www.warnerpistols.com/
cvwinabq@live.com
Rio Rancho New Mexico

"I like double barrels....Aprilia, Ducati, and sxs rifles"

Just in case my assumptions are incorrect - why is a pistol with a bushing more comfortable for carry than a pistol with a flgr?

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God Bless
45Fundi

In the carry scenario, I was suggesting the lightest combination of barrel & guide/plug available - a bushing barrel with a GI guide and plug.

_________________
shop.HarrisonCustom.com
www.HarrisonCustom.com

The grand essentials to happiness in this life are something to do, something to love and something to hope for.

I myself love a trick pony...but that mule that goes all day sure is nice. I myself would agree about the bushing barrel and guide rod for carry. and im no expert.

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http://www.warnerpistols.com/
cvwinabq@live.com
Rio Rancho New Mexico

"I like double barrels....Aprilia, Ducati, and sxs rifles"

Chuck, seeing that you have joined here, prompted me to drag out my copy of that book and salivate once again over some of the guns shown there. Though I was never a fan of the Double Eagle, the work you did on that one was quite tasty! Particularly your one piece backstrap and rework of that ugly factory triggerguard into something much more aestheticly pleasing.

Bill, thank you. that gun project was spawned out of a sense of adventure and my limited experience with colts prototype when in the military.believe it or not that pistol spawned th mark II. double eagle. that gun had huge potential but colt did not seem willing to take it any farther. i was pretty naive back then and and didnt even copyright any of the changes on that gun, or photograph them or whatever was appropriate. At some point in time the gun was showed to them and voila! markII. im still tickled to this day. not my favorite design,but it had potential in the da/law enforcement market..thanks again Bill.

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http://www.warnerpistols.com/
cvwinabq@live.com
Rio Rancho New Mexico

"I like double barrels....Aprilia, Ducati, and sxs rifles"

...Incidently Bill that trigger gaurd was a complete replacement. The backsrap and beavertail was a modified Ed Brown or Smith and Alexander...I dont recall. The welding wasnt a problem,but i had huge fear of the stainless not matching. I would love to own that gun for memories sake, but alas, I have no idea what Layne has done with it. I did a lot of experimenting in those days and tested guns at the matches..lots of fun but not good for business..those were the days of CONSTANT change..lol. I always liked experimenting with all guns, much like Mr. Behlert. played with everything back then and thats how i learned about barrels etc..lol

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http://www.warnerpistols.com/
cvwinabq@live.com
Rio Rancho New Mexico

"I like double barrels....Aprilia, Ducati, and sxs rifles"

I appreciate the sentiment and encouragement Bill, I have actually gone and dug up an old para frame to start. My recent move to New Mexico has given me the opportunity to play a little....If I could just find a trigger gaurd sqaring tool......lol.....

_________________
http://www.warnerpistols.com/
cvwinabq@live.com
Rio Rancho New Mexico

"I like double barrels....Aprilia, Ducati, and sxs rifles"