ltwguns.com

Mr. Yagoda....we may have a chance. Thanks to pezulli above, I called Erv at ESF sales....great guy to talk to, but he currently has no ASPs in stock. He did refer me to a gentleman he said is somewhat of an expert in ASPs named Bob (forgot the last name) at ShowGuns (phone 954-647-2926) who rebuilds and referbishes ASP pistols, using many of the original parts and suppliers. He also is licenced by DuPont to do the original Teflon-3 coating/finish. Very knowlegeable gentleman and I spent about an hour on the phone with him this morning.
Anyway, he has just gotten in a few ASPs and has not started refurbing them yet, so he has no idea how long it make take to get them ready to roll, but he keeps a detailed book of clients, and when he finds a pistol or gets one ready to go he will start down the phone list. Give him a call if you are interested. Also if you find an ASP elsewhere Bob said that for about $200 he can inspect and repair any springs, the recoils spring being one of the main causes for problems in this (and other Model 39's) and can refinish the weapon in the original Teflon-3 coating.

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"There is a true glory and a true honor, the glory of duty done, the honor of integrity and principle."--Gen. Robert Edward Lee

Josh,
You stated the guttersnipe sight was useless in low light. The ASP I once owned (sold it about 5 or 6 years ago) had tritium inserts on either side of the guttersnipe. Was this an option, or do you think something a previous owner had done?

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(St Francis of Assisi)

Mark, I just saw something a couple of nights ago about an ASP with the same thing....I can't remember if it was one of the ones for sale on GunsAmerica or not, or where I saw it, so apparently it wasn't just yours. The one I saw mentioned I think it said it was three tritium triangles placed at the sides and bottom of the sight. In speaking with the gentleman I mentioned in my above post, he said he is making/reproducing the GutterSnipes at his shop. He seems to have a wealth of knowledge on them as does Josh.

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"There is a true glory and a true honor, the glory of duty done, the honor of integrity and principle."--Gen. Robert Edward Lee

The guttersnipe in question had 2 capsules on either side of the gutter, and a bar at the front. However, lining these up made the gun shoot about 1" low at 7 yards. The sight on the left is an aluminum Seventrees in the white, center is a standard WI sight, and left is one with the inserts and bar at the front.



The gentleman a Show Guns is Bob Munch (spelling?)
The guns you read about was most likely one of the Quest for Excellence guns. 100 were produced with that sight, as well as buffalo horn grips, a MC 3 companion boot knife, ASP cloisonne lapel pin, and a glove leather bound presentation book that everything fit into.

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(814)696-8615

Thanks again, Josh!!!

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"There is a true glory and a true honor, the glory of duty done, the honor of integrity and principle."--Gen. Robert Edward Lee

Please allow this old guy a short, but absolutely true "war story".

Working as a Boss with the U.S.Customs Service in Miami, I had occasion to take part in a fairly large drug matter around 1980 or so.
A protracted surveillance finally netted us a good size Cocaine seizure and several arests from an illegal importation off of an Air Argentina flight one dark and stormy night. (Did I really write that?)

Leaving my desk as the initiator of the case, and in conjunction with fellow Customs Enforcement Officers & the local DEA, we effected the arrest at gunpoint (of course) after a short chase and confrontation, on the cargo side of the airport.

Noteworthy is that before leaving my office, I dropped the ASP "Thing" and it's beautifully crafted Seventrees holster into my lockable file cabinet, and placed my fairly worn blue S&W 4inch M-13 (.357) onto my belt, along with three speed loaders. Serious matters call for serious weapons.

In my recollection I have never, ever considered wearing the "Thing" when an arrest was to be performed. Reflection soon led me to get rid of it entirely.
It was too hard to justify wearing in the safe confines of my office, but then exchanging it for real arms when enforcement activity was imminent.

If anyone herein wants one (an ASP) just to have one, well great.
But take the word of an old guy who has peeked at the elephant on numerous occasions, and even got close to the Rhino, consider something else for "real life matters".

Stay safe and enjoy. Enjoy.

Joel Ariel

"If someone tells you he is going to kill you,.......believe him."

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The mature gentleman sitting quietly in the far corner, sipping Lagavulin and very much enjoying the "Stan Getz's CD.

Joel, I don't think anyone here would consider actually carrying one, they are just looking for something to pull out of the safe and fondle every once in a while.


But then again, I have talked to lots of "professionals" who carried an ASP, had occasion (good or bad) to use it, and felt very comfortable with carrying one. In fact one of the Seventrees guns I bought had teeth marks from the user shoving it a suspects mouth.
Josh

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Hmmm.

Great teeth.

Soft gun.

My warmest regards,

Joel Ariel


"If someone tells you he is going to kill you,.......believe him".

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The mature gentleman sitting quietly in the far corner, sipping Lagavulin and very much enjoying the "Stan Getz's CD.

The guy that I got the gun from was the real deal back in the 60's-70's. I wouldn't have wanted to tick him off. End up in a Virginia farm tied up to the rack or something.

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Bulman Gunleather
http://www.bulmangunleather.com
(814)696-8615

I've always been interested in the ASP (and Devels, Semmerlings, etc) as something different to the normal run of things. Both as interesting firearms in and of themselves and from the mechanical perspectives. How they were built or modified from the original, etc. I've always been very curious as to the 200+ modifications mentioned for the ASP.
Never had the money to buy one when you could still order them new and not much time to pursue it since. Do any of you fellows know of a well written treatise that delves into these interesting pieces in depth?

BBBBill, there are several articles on both the ASP and Devel, but none of them really get into the specifics of the modifications. The claim of 254 mods to the ASP is very generously stated in the literature. They must have counted every weld and machine set up, as well as every swipe of the file

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Bulman Gunleather
http://www.bulmangunleather.com
(814)696-8615

Joshua (or someone),

What is the big deal with these guns? A while back, the Performance Center built some nice, compact S&Ws. I don't hear anyone talking about them. I would think that given their limited number and craftmanship, people would be talking and searching for them instead. If I am missing out on something, I would like to know; I am prepared to jump on the proverbial band wagon.

J.Padilla

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J.Padilla

JPAD, the ASP and Devel, were the first practical short barrel semi-auto's to use a larger caliber (9mm). Both the ASP and Devel were built from the Model 39/439 which was cut down to a smaller size (as there were no small 9mm and larger auto's). The S&W 469 and later the 3913/3914 were introduced by S&W because of these and other chopped guns.

_________________
Bulman Gunleather
http://www.bulmangunleather.com
(814)696-8615

I've always suspected a bit of hyperbole was involved in the marketing. Still, the engineer in me gets excited reading The New American Machinist's Handbook, so you see my dilema. The paucity of detailed information on these pieces is terrible to someone like me. I guess I'll go back to reading The Guns of Dagenham or some such to get me through the evening. Maybe I should just "shut up and put up" the coin to buy one to satisfy my curiosity.

Bill,

If you are interested, I can probably dig-up the patents and e-mail them to you. They may give you a little more insight into what was done.

Let me know.

John

I'm with BBBBill on this one....tinkerers curiosity.Shorty forty fills the bill nicely.

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cvwinabq@live.com
Rio Rancho New Mexico

"I like double barrels....Aprilia, Ducati, and sxs rifles"

OK just got my fed tax return....

Surely someone here wants to sell me a ASP or Devel....

http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/pr6405.htm

Go get 'em tiger.

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CHECK OUT MY CUSTOM 1911 BLOG
http://thearsenalofdemocracy.blogspot.com

...somebody just got the prize at the bottom of the CAPN CRUNCH...good luck

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cvwinabq@live.com
Rio Rancho New Mexico

"I like double barrels....Aprilia, Ducati, and sxs rifles"

That looks pretty rough!

What do some of the gurus here think?
Is that a fair deal or is it on the pricey side?

Just joining in.
I've admitted before to being a leather junkie, and often get more excited over getting a new holster than a new gun.
Which brings me to this, which may prove it- I don't have a question about the gun, but rather the holster.
What was the Seventrees holster that several of you have mentioned?
I'm familiar with Seventrees Holsters, LTD that was in NYC, but what type of holster was it?
Something in the back of my mind tells me a belt slide, but I won't rule out something oddball, like the SMZ shoulder rig.

Since Charles Kelsey was mentioned here, that got me thinking- When was he found dead? It's been two to three years now hasn't it? I wonder if they're any closer to finding out who did it. I hope so.

That Collector's Firearms gun looks familiar. Maybe I've seen it advertised before.

And- Does anyone remember this one?
I remember reading something about Paris Theodore's "Quell System" of shooting about 1980.
I hadn't been shooting all that long then, so it didn't stick with me, but I think it involved leaning your head over and using the weak-side eye. I think there was more to it, but that part stands out.

I dont think that ASP is too rough. Teflon-S is really soft and readily wears compared to the other spray on finishes.

_________________
"The most effective armor is to keep out of range"-Italian proverb

CHECK OUT MY CUSTOM 1911 BLOG
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The ASP never included a holster, although the most common holster Seventrees and later A.S.P. of WI sold was the speed scabbard. The gun came with a magnetic magazine pouch, of which Paris had a patent for.

Josh

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You are correct. Head over onto the strong side arm (i.e., right ) using the left eye. When seen through the left eye, the brain/nervous system was better able to deal with stressful conditions. The stance was a modified Weaver (i.e., Chapman). Special Targets were develped which indicated the spine, kidneys, and possibly another vital area(s).

HTH

John

Thanks. Pezulli. I saw the Quell System mentioned online a couple of years ago, and it got me thinking. I scratched around in my memory for more, but couldn't recall anything else. I've posted elswhere asking, but found all that people remembered was that there was such a thing- like me.

Mr Bulman- That clears it up. Not that I've seen a whole lot of ASPs for sale, but I never saw a holster included. From reading the discussion here, I had started to think they came with one.

For the record, the one that Anthony posted a link to is a second generation ASP that was coverted by Kevin Parsons' company (ASP) in Appleton WI. The original ones are easy to spot. The GUT sight was machined and dovetailed into the slide. The second gen guns used a molded sight that was attached with an adhesive.

Anthony is right about the Teflon finish being soft. My carry gun only looks a little better than this one.

As for the ASP being practical in its day, it was small, smooth, and reliable. However, it was a pistol that you needed to be completely dedicated to with regards to the sights. You could not carry it one day and a 1911 another day.

Being a student and small time collector of the ASP, Seventrees, and related items, I have appreciated the comments and thank Josh for getting some interest behind the history of the pistol.

Stay Safe,

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