ltwguns.com

So I'd like to get some input on this project before I proceed and I figured this would be the best place to ask. I recently came across a 1911 barrel chambered in .41 Action Express. It is an unramped, stainless steel, Government size that is in new, unused condition. I have a tendency to gravitate towards the strange and unusual when it comes to 1911's, and this would certainly have to qualify. I've decided to build a pistol centered around this barrel but I have some questions regarding components and sizes. I'd appreciate some guidance and advice before I begin ordering parts.

1.) What size feed ramp should I specify for the frame? I've heard that a 9mm/.38 Super would work but there is such a large difference in diameter that I'd guess that a .40 S&W/10mm would be a wiser choice.
2.) How about the ejection port size for the slide? Again, I'd heard 9mm but I can't help but think that .40/10mm or even .45 ACP would be a better fit.
3.) What size magazines would be the most reliable for this cartridge? .40/10mm seems just a little too small/snug so that leaves .45.
4.) Of the caliber-specific small parts, what sizes would be the best fit? Specifically, I am thinking about the slide stop, ejector, extractor, and firing pin/stop.

If anyone has any ideas at all, I'd sure be grateful. I realize this is pretty bizarre but I've already got the barrel and I figure I'd better do something with it.

I'll take a poke at this and please anyone correct any incorrect thinking. I have not actually built a 41AE but here goes.

1.) What size feed ramp should I specify for the frame? I've heard that a 9mm/.38 Super would work but there is such a large difference in diameter that I'd guess that a .40 S&W/10mm would be a wiser choice. I would go with the 40/10mm being the 41 is closer in size to a 10mm than a 9mm, I would think a 45 may work2.) How about the ejection port size for the slide? Again, I'd heard 9mm but I can't help but think that .40/10mm or even .45 ACP would be a better fit. I think what you are asking is which breach face you need, that answer is absolutely a 9mm breach face.
3.) What size magazines would be the most reliable for this cartridge? .40/10mm seems just a little too small/snug so that leaves .45. This is just a guess but a workable guess I would start with a 40/10mm mag if the rounds didn't look like they were sitting high enough the feed lips could be opened up.
4.) Of the caliber-specific small parts, what sizes would be the best fit? Specifically, I am thinking about the slide stop, ejector, extractor, and firing pin/stop. Slide stop 45- I would think 45 would be fine, ejector/extractor would have to be 9mm, Firing pin would be 9mm also

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Dan Burwell
http://www.burwellgunsmithing.com

Sorry, and no offense intended - but I have to ask. If you found a brand new Chevy Vega motor in a time capsule would you have an exotic sportscar built around it?

I may have missed the resurgence of the 41AE, maybe I just wasn't paying attention, but I had thought for years that the 41AE was quite dead. Upstaged by another .40 that actually caught on

Have you considered a 10mm? That's a .40 being all that it can be! Maybe your barrel can be rechambered. Worth a look.

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Heirloom Precision, LLC.
480-804-1911

Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing.

TR

Ted,

Absolutely no offense taken. In fact, I'm having to stifle laughter as I type this so as not to wake anyone. And yes, the .41AE has been dead for quite some time with no sign of a resurgence. As noted in my initial post, I'm drawn to the odd-ball calibers for reasons I can't explain.

As far as 10mm goes, I've already scratched that itch.

If i remember correctly you just substitute that barrel in your 45. its a 45 necked to .41. I did one about 15 years ago. nothing memorable. over the counter is better now and a lot less work. Chuck

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cvwinabq@live.com
Rio Rancho New Mexico

"I like double barrels....Aprilia, Ducati, and sxs rifles"

oh yeah....all of your components would be .45. the only thing different is the bullet coming out the end of the barrel. Most of those were supposed to be a drop in kit.

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http://www.warnerpistols.com/
cvwinabq@live.com
Rio Rancho New Mexico

"I like double barrels....Aprilia, Ducati, and sxs rifles"

Chuck,

Are you sure about .41AE being .45 ACP necked down? The ammo I've seen is all straight-walled with a 9mm-style rebated rim. My understanding is that .41AE was a new, proprietary cartridge developed by Action Arms back in the '80's. I think they used cut-down .41 Mag. brass during the R&D phase and then switched to production cases once the ball got rolling.

Pinot_guy,
You are correct it is a rebated rim straight walled cartridge with a .410 diameter bullet. Here is a link to the .41 facts:
http://www.reloadbench.com/cartridges/p41ae.html

You could not rechamber your barrel to anything else, either.
Dan

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Dan Burwell
http://www.burwellgunsmithing.com

I have played with Bottle Necks for many years. I agree with Ted 100% I would not touch this project with Ted's 10 foot pole.
This one is extinct and you will have nothing but lots of time and trouble with nothing at the end of the trail.
I shot 30,000 10mm Centaur rounds after I spent 8 months trying to get a magazine to run 8 rounds in a row. Then I discovered that the breech face was too narrow for some cases. I fixed it with my disconnector scraper. It ran 100 % after that. They varied by about .004 in diameter. It was the best 1911 I ever built and shot and I traded it for a $4000.00 diamond ring! Shucks on me!
Trade that barrel or pitch it!
Then get into the 400 Cor Bon for some bottleneck fun! 135 grain hollow points going 1600 fps!

You are absolutely correct. In my foggy memory I had some cartridges confused. The sad part is I OWNED a semi auto uzi conversion for a short while. shame on me. I think the cartridge I had in mind might have been the .41 ssk. I will dust of some old reading material and get my facts straight....At one time due to a magazine writer friend I got in on some pretty good Action Arms deals. I wish I still had my AT84. sorry for the mix up......Chuck

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http://www.warnerpistols.com/
cvwinabq@live.com
Rio Rancho New Mexico

"I like double barrels....Aprilia, Ducati, and sxs rifles"

Dave, I've said it before and I'll say it again here, Ray Herriot of centaur systems was an absolute genius. He has more stuff out there under other peoples name than you can imagine. Helluva guy. You wouldnt believe how he made his barrels. Chuck

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http://www.warnerpistols.com/
cvwinabq@live.com
Rio Rancho New Mexico

"I like double barrels....Aprilia, Ducati, and sxs rifles"

Dan's absolutely correct--I do have a TZ-75 Series 88 Combo gun with 2 5" ported barrels in 9m/m and 41 AE, separate recoil springs, about 5 boxes of original 41AE Samson and IMI ammo and about 1300 new cases. You have to be really careful to retrieve your cases after firing as they are very, very scarce and IMI seldom imports any more.
Jeff

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An armed society is a polite society--Robert Heinlein

Swamper2,

It sounds as though you have some first-hand experience with .41 AE. Do you happen to have a source for the IMI ammunition? Even before I started this thread, I'd begun talking with custom ammo producers about it. They seem to be receptive but the ammo is going to be super-expensive, almost unreasonably so. Anyway, I'm committed to seeing this project through and I'd prefer to maintain a stash of at least 250 rounds at all times.

IMI imports and the only outlet I know of is Weidners (when they are able to get any produced/imported from IMI). Seems the 50AE is made and imported on a regular basis, but the 41AE they seldom manufacture a lot for import.
The 41AE loads up close to 41 Magnum specs.
I kinda keep my eyes open at gun shows and did find one bag of about 250 once fired at one show, but the brass seldom shows up.
Jeff

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An armed society is a polite society--Robert Heinlein

Ray and I were good pals back then and I built lots of guns with those barrels. They are in the short Colts as we speak along with his recoil system he used for the Comp Kits. I got better accuracy with his barrels than the big boys did back then with all the welding and other crazy stff going on. I still have a 10 Centaur Barrel and slide stop here in the shop. I used my own reverse plug recoil system back then and still remember filing out the slide with a rat tail file and then making the cut for the reverse plug. I never had any machines. I have thousands of empty 10mm Centaur cases made from APD Hydr-Shok once fired nickle emptys. I loved that 1911. Chuck sleeved a 400 Cor bon barrel for me way back when and that thing was really accurate. I love the diamond ring, but miss that gun! I shot out a barrel with it and have a 5" now.

Ray's slide stop idea was pure genius!

Ray was one of my first mentors and I always felt like I let him down. Among the things he offered to me were the Krebs type ez fit barrel system, the ez fit offered by KART, and his .22 conversion now marketed by Bill Jarvis. Bill has always made the the .22 and done a fine job of it. Great guy himself and probably the only barrels I'll ever use again as I start back up. Anyways, Ray tried to get me to offer those systems (or ones very similar) and I passed. I was entrenched in IPSC and you couldn't get them to see the forrest for the trees.
Anyways he is a great guy and an absolute genius.He, Bill Jarvis, and Richard Heinie were always receptive to my calls and instructive and forthcoming with information. Chuck

_________________
http://www.warnerpistols.com/
cvwinabq@live.com
Rio Rancho New Mexico

"I like double barrels....Aprilia, Ducati, and sxs rifles"

I spent a couple of hours with Bill Jarvis about 6-7 years ago at his place outside of Hamilton, MT. He is a real gentleman and very talented. His "Drop In" barrel and bushing is great! I watched those CNC mills in awe making barrels and they are so neat to watch. My ex wife's brother and sister live in Hamilton.He and Ray are buddies.

IPSC guys are doing the SOS:DD as always. They still use comps that blow the smoke up in front of the Lens like a Choo Choo Train. The guns get uglier every year but they don't seem to notice. They are great guys, but no forward thinking allowed. I have known Dick for 20 years. We do not chat. He was the only one that didn't give my students a price break on the parts we ordered from him so we quit. We use Novak and Caspian rear sights now.

I wonder how many of the LTW Smiths still build Comp Guns? I quit it 15 years ago.

I am sure Ted was kidding, but just in case anyone missed it, the 41 AE bore is .410 diameter. You couldn't rechamber that barrel to .40. Either way, I agree it is a bad idea. If all you have to start with is a barrel, and you really want a 40 caliber, get a 10mm and have the versatility of available components, hot, medium or mild loads and probalby a bit better reliability in a 1911 platform.
Best,
Lenny

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Show 'em where you live....

It was a fun Wildcat back 15-20 years ago as was the 10mm Centaur which Charles Petty, Ray Herriot, and Richard Beebe brough to life in the late '80's. It was the best IPSC gun for me and I built several of them back then. One that I know of is still going strong with the original barrel cut to 5" and carried by Frank's Grandson, Ben. He left the gun to Ben before the cancer killed him.

I wish I could get Ray to build me a couple more of those 5" barrels as I have a gun kit I could use to shoot that cartridge again. It is an old Caspian lower end from 1990 with a Colt Competion slide. That would make one heckofa fun shooter. I still have a 5" barrel for it.

It is a dead cartridge just like the .41 Action Express. The difference is I have three sets of dies, two three pound cans of empty brass, and loading data for the 10mm C. Bottle necks feed very well in 1911's if you set them up right. Stuffing a .401 bullet in a .455 hole is very easy! The best magazines were the generic Metalform with an orange follower back then that I got from Gil Hebard. I used to get IPSC Power factors of 225,000 with them hot loads.

I always got my brass back, too!