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I very rarely see a custom carry build based on the STI 2011 high cap frame...

Why is that? It seems an almost perfect balance between the plastic wonderguns and the classic lines and feel of the 1911.

Maybe this is the wrong place to ask as many of these beautiful creations here are more art than action, although I'm sure many get used.

Well, I've built several over the years, but to one degree or another, we do what our customers order. My own experience is that you can build a great competition gun on a 2011, but the synthetic lower doesn't lend itself to traditional customizing techniques typically used. There's just so much you can do and a lot of things are already far gone in the direction that STI builds them in.

You can see an interesting article featuring an STI in the current (June '09) issue of Guns and Ammo written by Patrick Sweeney about long range shooting with a handgun.

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The grand essentials to happiness in this life are something to do, something to love and something to hope for.

The double stack magazines tend to be a weak point. Rather than giving my opinion I would suggest a search on several forums about the mags for carry use.

Hmm, I spent about 20 minutes searching Google and didn't come up with a single wholly negative post. There was some "theories" that the mag lips were weak, but nothing by the way of proof. Also, if mags were such an issue, why would guys who make a living with their guns use STI mags?

I'm more than willing to listen to any proof or experiences you've had or have found, but I've searched and came up MORE convinced that the 2011 would be a great working man's pistol...

It's not really a magazine design and execution quality issue. These mags often do require specialized tweaking to be totally reliable. I assume the guys "who make a living with their guns" are likely the competitive shooters who are sponsored by the wide body gun manufacturers like STI, SVI & Para. In a competitive environment, the high caps can be very reliable. Most everyone who uses high caps has a rule that states if the mag hits the ground, it comes apart, gets cleaned before going back on the belt and is also generally left unloaded when not in use to make them last longer.

Where I've personally heard about the lack of success of the competition bred high cap mags is from the military spec ops and LEO/SWAT communities where these high cap mags were left loaded to capacity in call out gear, riding in the trunk of a car or worse for long periods of time. Springs fatigue and loose tension, feed lips stretch open over time and dirt gets inside. Not a recipe for success, but these guys want gear to go to war with that doesn't require special care and handling. This all comes straight from people who've been on the sharp point.

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Hmmm, very interesting...

See, that's the kind of info I was looking for

Mr. Harrison, I am not doubting what you say at all, in fact, it makes perfect sense. However I couldn't find a single person unhappy with their STI/SVI mags on the Google search I did.

I'd guess that's because the tip of the spear doesn't like talking to guys like me

Hmm, I don't know how I feel about this now...

I'll send a pm with a better place to check.

Oh...this is just silly. I can't believe I am hearing about how crappy STI/SV mags are on a 1911 (based) forum.

I'm not saying they don't have issues...not at all I am just saying there are lots of crappy SS 1911 mags out there.

People here are looking at top-shelf custom guns...which, along with the shooter, the ammo and the mags, makes up the whole shooting system.

Folks that spend multiple thousands of dollars on a gun ought not flinch at spending a few hundred for a set of tuned STI/SV mags. That would be like putting cheap tires on a new Corvette.

Any gear that is to be "used" needs to be put through the paces. Beat it up. Shoot it up. (Like competition shooters do.)


We all tend to go with what we know...what we are comfortable with. I know that many competition shooters do carry double-wide guns similar to what they shoot on the weekends. And, I know that some have most certainly been put to use.

Heck, I've even heard of some crazy people that carry those Glocks.

(Sorry if that is a little off base for this forum. I don't mean for it to come off as argumentative...just a different perspective, perhaps.)

Dude - who said STI/SSVI = crappy? All I said was they didn't stand up to the abuse and misuse that they were given in certain circles. The Para mags didn't do any better with the FBI HRT, from what I've been told. I had a hard time accepting this, 'cause I shot a Para in USPSA for many years and thought those mags were terrific.

You're right about 1911 single stack mags. There is more crap in that size than any other.
I think it's more that the guys on the sharp end of things don't do much posting on the internet.

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I have recently built a couple of 5" tactical style STI's in 9mm. While I haven't had any problems with the mags, I have researched mag tuning. I have learned that there are some rough edges on the lips that should be smoothed up. I have personally observed that there seems to be some variation with the mag lip dimensions. I am using the factory guts with a loaded capacity of 15 instead of the possible 17 to reduce stress on the springs. I am interested to see how the mags function after being stored loaded at 15 rounds, and after having been used hard and dropped in the dirt this summer. I haven't done any reforming of the bodies or internal parts switching to increase the round count. Hope this helps.

Had a couple of PM's so I wanted to post a picture of the comp gun I was talking about from Pistol Dynamics. I use the gun in limited 10 USPSA. Note the lack of a huge magwell, standard guide rod and bushing, no slide cuts to reduce weight, gold bead front sight, and the trigger pull is about 4 1/2lbs. I set the gun up to be carried also but it did not prove itself with my duty ammo. With all fairness I never mentioned that to Pistol Dynamics. If I had they would have certainly tuned it to fed the ammo. After the mags were tuned it runs 100% with speer lawman and my 180oal 180gr reloads, and Atlanta Arms standard and long loaded.
Any mags that I buy for this will need to be tuned. Because of that I consider them to be a weak point in the system.

SVI/STI mags are garbage, the specs are all across the board. They are "kit" mags and useful only for play guns.
They rarely work with a wide variety of factory ammo. The basepads have a tendency to come loose. Many tubes stick in the frame. Many rub on the ramp. Rarely do they lock back reliably on the last round. There is no positive stop in the frame either so watch out ejector. If the lips are off, a follower can easily pop out of the tube.

I have a few play guns built on the platform and they are awesome. I also use $110 Grams tuned SVI mags. They work 100%. I baby them.

There are half a dozen tweakers out there who tune high-cap mags for a living. Thats how bad they suck.

I love the pistol dynamics gun. That is uber-cool.

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As far as the forums go, STI/SV 's are expensive and their use is normally in a pretty narrow competative arena. There just aren't as many people using them as the 1911, so there aren't as many people talking about them.

Almost every time I see one malfunction at a match, the mag or the ammo is blamed. I think alot of this is due to the fact that most of the STI type guns are 9mm or 40 S&W, both seem to require alot of TLC, and special mags to run in a 1911 based gun. The 38 Supers and 45's seem okay. You might check out: http://forum.m1911.org/archive/index.php/f-31.html

Just my thoughts--

I dont post much and I know this is not really about paras, but I have carried a p-14 on duty for the last ten years. It was worked over by Ed Vandenberg. I have six magazines that he said were fine and this pistol has never malfunctioned. Three of the mags still have the original factory springs. I replaced the springs in the other three with wolffs. I will replace the other three soon. These mags have been dropped on concrete and in the dirt with no problems. Once on a dirt range I made a point to drop one away from a puddle I was standing near. The nice friendly range officer came over and kicked it in for me. I went ahead and dropped the others freely and dealt with it. I had no problems that day either.

The comment on mag specs is right on. Although after much work, the STI and SVI mags can be made to consistantly feed reliably, getting the followers to engage and lock back the slide on an empty mag consistantly is impossible. If one orders 10 mags and 10 followers, each one will be different in some way.

I have a nice little 2011 built by Neil Keller of http://www.kustom-ballistics.com/ for Mr. Clint Smith himself.

This gun, serial number Thunder Ranch 1, was owned, shot, and written about by Clint a few years ago.

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I like the traditional round trigger guard. I wish STI offered that as an option. I don't see it on their web page.

Having to tune mags for reliability is the issue with STI (and SVI). While a person who spends a lot of dollars on a competition only pistol would tend to spend more on already expensive magazines to make them consistantly run, armed forces personel as well as LEO's want to purchase equipment that is reliable out of the box. Yes, although a few (very few) police departments have purchased STI's for certain units, these tend to be few and far between. I am aware of one department here in Ohio that purchased SVI's for their SRT team and after having many issues with magazines over a period of one year switched over to Glock. Neither STI or SVI have been able to consistantly produce magazines and followers that will lock the slide back on an empty mag. I used to shoot STI's and SVI's in competiton, and while the pistols worked OK, mags were the weak link. In my experience, after purchasing and using over 50 mags, only one out of 4 would work reliably from either manufacturer.

I have found that Chip McCormick and Wilson mags tend to be the most reliable magazine for single stacks. With Glock, there is no question as to mag reliability.