ltwguns.com

Let's talk magwells a minute. I really love the looks of a well-done one. The way I do them it gets pretty 'spensive, and I've always been the first to admit that for $69.00 (or whatever they cost now), you get a lot of magwell area increase from an S&A magwell. They are a little rough in some areas but again, for the price.... if we're talking, say, price per square inch of available area to shove a mag into, they are a tenth of the cost. I have used them in the past on high-end custom guns when it's what the customer insists on, but to get an S&A up to snuff enough to be part of a high-end custom is quite a bit of work in itself. They are made to fit any gun ever made, so are generally very loose. This might not be a problem until a perfect match is attempted between the funnel surfaces of the magwell, and those of the frame itself. This cannot be achieved if the S&A magwell can rock left and right .050 or so at the forward tips, so, first order of business, take out the slop. Peening up some space-taker-uppers is one way, or TIGing it, or sliver-brazing some pieces in. They are usually loose side-to-side as well as fore and aft.

Then there's the mainspring housing retaining pin hole. On the S&A they tend to be pretty generous to accommodate the many different places the mating hole in the frame might be. I have most often wound up reaming it oversized, silver-brazing a plug in, and re-drilling the hole then reaming it to exactly .1562, in exactly the location it needs to be to match the location of the frame's hole. Lastly, the checkering on them is cast- in.... pretty functional but not the stuff magazine-cover guns are made of. So-- again, a good value at a certain level of "custom", practical and utilitarian, but to use one for a really fine custom gun, well, it's a lot of extra work.

A weld-on magwell has more to offer but to get it we have to cross the "you don't get something for nothing" line. Generally speaking, you get more magwell area, and no added length to the gun-- although I'd say many of the guys I've seen using the S&A, part of the reason they like it specifically IS the added length of the mainspring housing. Depending on whose weld-on you're using, it may or may not be wider than the grips. Of course it all depends on the user's likes and requirements--for example, on an S&A, the extra length adding comfort for some larger hands, vs/ the compromise in concealability. Weight-wise, the dif would be indiscernible.

So-- a few pics of magwells, going from one in-process to some recent ones and then older.

First, in process for Rob Donaldson, about whom I've written before here on LTW. Made by me from a block of US-made pre-hardened 4140. This is a piece of steel from Crucible, a company that used to be part of Colt Industries. I've used this or prehard 4130 since my first one in about 1988 and it has been a good material choice as it closely duplicates what a carbon steel 1911 frame is made of. I have a decent chunk of this Crucible stuff right now so it goes in the saw when it's magwell time......





Next, the Lt. Colonel's 1911 as previously written up here at LTW. Unfortunately the pictures were lost in the server switch. On this one I used one of Stan Chen's excellent magwells--





Coming up, a few older ones.......

Just AWESOME!

_________________
Graduate:
Pat Rogers EAG Carbine Operators Course
Thunder Ranch Team Tactics Course

A bowling pin gun I did for myself, started in 1990, finished in '91. From another (rather larger in this case) block of steel, in this one prehard 4130. I was makings molds at this time and part of the process was to cut a large slug out of the mold base where the cavities would eventually go-- usually the bases were made from this material, so there was a lot of it around. Looking up inside you can see how the mainspring housing has had a forward step welded onto it so the magwell funnel area can be extended to the rear without making a knife edge out of the rear web of the mag chute. You can also see inside, if you look closely, some little screw heads on the inside of the grip panel. My pin loads are stout but not unsafe-- unless you get a bad case. I blew one out about five years ago (the first and only in tens of thousands of pin loads), and it cracked the grips. The downside to "marrying" the magwell and grips like this by extending the checking onto the steel is, if you have to replace the grips you probably won't get the perfect match-up. So I repaired the grips by putting steel plates on the inside, screwed and epoxy'd to the grips-- the steel plate then, "lives" in the frame cutout under the grips.






These are all TIG welded on. I'm not going to go into detail about exactly how it's done because I do it a little differently and... well.... I just kinda want to keep it that way . I've silver brazed my share of them too and a good silver joint is rock solid. Dad taught me how to do it and oh, how many times did I hear him say, "Preparation is 9/10 of the battle". So true, and thanks, Dad.

1993, I did this pin gun for a Mexican police officer who was an undercover narcotics guy for a state police agency. I asked him one time what a gram of coke went for and he didn't really know street corner pricing. His deals were trunkload transactions where they never even took it out of the trunk, "A" just met the supplier, made the deal, and the value of the car was simply, it was a convenient, wheeled box the dope came in-- and was thrown in with the deal. "A" would drive away, the rest of the team would swoop in and take down the bad guy. Good stuff.

I may have gone a little overboard on this one but "A" wanted it that way. Being as how it was a pin gun and nothing else, bulk and weight were not concerns. Truth be told though, in pin shooting, no matter how good the magwell, if you're reloading you are already way out of the money......

Ned,
Wonderful job my friend, just as always.. And you say I'm doing "Functional Art'. I remember that pin gun while playing around your shop!
Mmm Prep is 9/10 of the battle, He was so right!!
Just hope my kids remember some of their old man stuff..

"Love the late work nice blending".
Alex

These are all TIG welded on. I'm not going to go into detail about exaclty how it's done because I do it a little differently and... well.... I just kinda want to keep it that way . I've silver brazed my share of them too and a good silver joint is rock solid. Dad taught me how to do it and oh, how many times did I hear him say, "Preparation is 9/10 of the battle". So true, and thanks, Dad.[/quote]

_________________
Alex NossaR
www.nossargunleather.com

Here's an example of an S&A that's had some additional blending done to it. I think it's a dang fine job, and it was not done by a professional gunsmith. This 1911 belongs to the above mentioned Lt. Colonel, one of those people who just seems to do everything well.

Sorry about some of the pics disappearing, guys-- they look OK on the hosting site. Will try to get them back up....

Here's one I was looking for when I started this thread, just ran across it, it's on the gun I called V-1 Superhigh. Made from 4130, this one is silver-brazed on.




....and a K9 I did some years back-- also 4130, silver-brazed on.

This week I ran into the Chicago-area copper I did this one for years ago, probably about 2005. I think I posted on LTW about but the pictures would be gone now. It has seen a lot of use and is on its second barrel. The magwell was made from 420 stainless to match the stainless frame. I made the aluminum mainspring housing from scratch and then as an afterthought (probably as I learned how much this guy really shoots), I made a steel insert for it that slides into it sideways, so the aluminum would not get banged up from reloads.

Warning. Readjustment of eyes for disbelief required. View at own risk.

Nothing some rose-colored glasses can't handle.

A10ACN, welcome back btw.

I think this is the smallest magwell I've done.... probably the smallest This was on L Minimus Primus, .50 GI caliber. As this was a CCO-style pistol I wanted to keep things slender and light.

beautiful work. could you tell us more about the magazine releases on the bowling pin guns, they look fascinating.

Well first, a magwell and extended mag release on a pin gun are a misallocation of features really, since as I mentioned above, if you are reloading at pin match, noting on the prize table will be going home with you..... but still to me pin guns seemed a good place to lavish attention and try new things. Plus, there was period during which a pin gun could double as USPSA gun-- like, right before high-cap .38 Supers wit red dots took it all to the next level.

On my pin gun there is a pivoting paddle that presses the mag catch. Under the grip as a little boss attached to the frame; the paddle straddles it and hinges on a pin. If I may say so t's the best enlarged mag release I have used but s a ton of work, plus the mg catch itself then cannot be simply replaced with another without taking off the paddle-- which I have done for IDPA in years past to comply with the rules (also of course replacing the compensated top end with the "standard" top end). Honestly though a button head that ig with standard straight-in motion is 95% as effective.

On The Mexican's gun below it, that is simply a large head attached to the mag release with a small socket-head cap screw.

O' course, "magwell" does not always mean, "an extra thing bolted / welded / brazed on".

I have a gun in the shop that I did in about 2002 I'll get some pics of when I can, where I have reduced the bottom of the frame so that a mag with no bumper pad sticks out a little (the thickness of the floorplate). So the grips hang down a bit-- they are then chamfered on the inside to become "magwell helpers".

Below is a background project that's been in the works for a long time-- the frontstrap and MSH were finished in 2006 or maybe even 2005..... while my current major project is out to its owner getting some test firing and confirmation that everything is to his liking, I'm getting a few hours in on this Operator; finished the mag bevels and stoned it up today. It is going to someone on my list that's been waiting quite a while..... good. I can take him off the list after I deliver it and everyone ratchets up one. I love my customers but it always feels good to get another one off the list!

Ned,
A perfect installled magwell ....Should look like that it is part of lower frame, as you have shown. I know it's not easy, but you make it look that way
Seemless.(hope I spelled that right) Excellent Job.....!!!!! Seen magwells that look that there ready fall off LOL....

Very few can manage to pull off a magwell like you, Mr. Christiansen. That 2005 workhorse, the small magwell'd CCO, and heck, that K9 that I can hardly find the crease on have me scrolling back and forth at an unhealthy rate...Fantastic work all the way up and down, as usual!

One reason to have a big magwell on a pin gun was to provide a bottom lip for your hand(s) to ride on.

I found that a ledge there acted as a lever point for my hands, reducing muzzle lift. When a fast run was in the low 3's, another tenth faster was like wining the lottery.

I totally zoned on that aspect of it and you are quite right. My own pin gun actually kinda "crowds" those three fingers into frontstrap space. Keeps things nice and firm when rockin' a 215-240 Power Factor!

Top view—A 1918 Colt, a Kimber .22 with a square-cornered magwell done in similar fashion to the one in the previous pics, and a 2002 gun I did that was in for a check-up when the owner bought it on the secondary market. It came to him with something other than the original grips; due to the girth reduction this pistol has had plus the afore-mentioned magwell treatment where the grips serve as magwell helpers, I’m also putting new grips on for him (those in the pic are just there for illustration, they are not the replacements).


The way I did several of them in this timeframe, with a full radius at the back, I like the look of it but it actually offers a less effective magwell, since, after all, the magazine is square-ish on the back side. A more squared-out profile allows the mag’s square corners a place to fit in. Short of a government grant to scientifically study the difference I am for now just gonna call the actual difference in reload times “borderline theoretical”. But on the other hand you can actually see on the 1918 Colt where magazines have been striking the back of the mag opening—feedlips, top rear, banging on the bottom of the back wall of the mag opening.

This old Colt was recovered in 2009 from an artillery observation balloon found to still be floating over WWI battlefields with two skeletons aboard.

......I know it only took 1/10 of a second to figure out that was BS. But admit it—it was fun to contemplate for that part of a moment, wasn’t it?

Side view shows better how the grips play a part:

Here's one from about '96, an S&A with the frontstrap flared out a little. Very high mileage gun, mentioned in the "High Mileage Comes to Town" thread.