ltwguns.com

Saturday night after “real” work, I started fitting a barrel to a family .45 and tried something different for letting the barrel up until the firing pin strike on the primer would be perfect. Usually, a .45 is tolerant of an off-center hit as discussed in a previous post. This particular gun though, I want it as close to perfect as possible because I have maybe 750 once-fired cases set aside for it with the abominable small pistol primers. I don’t know of anyone who likes those. Why did they make them that way….? More economical, I suppose. Anyway—they will be more sensitive to off-center hits. Recently -learned interesting fact, I think: originally .45 ACP was going to be with small primers. They changed it to make the system more tolerant of off-center hits!
Very often I just get lucky and everything works out to a well-centered firing pin hole / chamber relationship. I mean, you watch it as a barrel is being fitted but there are other factors that also must be considered. In this case, at first, the barrel came up “low.” How to determine how much more to let it up, a visual cue that is better than just looking down the barrel (which is not that bad of a method)? One could depth mike from the top of the slide to the center of the firing pin hole, by eyeball, or maybe if you have set of gage pins, put one in the FP hole and mike to it, and add half the gage pin diameter. Then depth mike to the top of the barrel hood with everything in battery and add half that barrel body diameter over the chamber area. That’d get you very close to perfect. I’ve done some that way and it is tedious, and I find that I can eyeball it in pretty dang good. I can eyeball it a little better by making a .45-sized cylindrical piece that is a not-sloppy fit in the chamber, with a hole drilled through the center, to use as a “sight” for concentricity.
In extreme cases of course, the FP hole just has to be bushed, depending on many other factors, especially if there is an existing barrel that is not going to be changed out.
I could not find my little ”sight” cylinder as I have not used it for a while….. so I made this bit of rod that will just slide down the barrel. It has a little standing nub at the end. Blue it up with Prussian blue, and with the barrel in battery, slide it down and let it bonk the breech face. You get a mark around the firing pin hole that gives a good visual and a mark on the nub that you can measure if you want to. The comparator is what I used but a caliper and loupe would also work.



I know there is talk that off center hits could affect accuracy, I have not experienced that, even in guns that will occasionally misfire..,… but I confess I have not really studied it deeply. I think generally speaking we don’t need to over-fret this, the system is usually tolerant of off-center hits, but on the other hand it’s nice to see them centered or pretty well centered.
I determined I need to go another .013 higher. I won’t be just taking another .013 off the barrel locking recess and that’s that, it’s going to be a combo of going to the numbers and some more hand-fitting. As I get there I doubt I’ll do any further measuring, I’ll just go until it “looks perfect”.

Pictured below, three triggers from “the trigger drawer”, and the one on top from a current project. It got lightened from 155 grains to 134 grains. That's 15%, not a whole lot.


I’ve gone to a lot of trouble over the years to reduce the weight of triggers—not referring here to the pull weight, but the mass of the trigger itself as an individual part. It’s a safety thing. A trigger that weighs less is less likely to induce hammer follow or an unintended shot when dropping the slide. I think that trigger pull weights above 3.5-4 pounds are where you can start worrying about it less, but I want to worry about it “none.” I never, ever go below 3.5 and honestly I don’t remember the last time I went below 4, my standard minimum being 4.5. But still, a trigger with less mass “don’t hurt none”.


Sticking my neck out a bit here I will say that I think Colt triggers are superior to aftermarket triggers—in some ways. Downside, it takes some work to make them lighter and to reduce the standard rather sloppy fit. The bows are made out of real-deal gunmetal, at least compared to any aftermarket trigger I’ve experienced, where the bow is made of some kind of dead-soft stainless. That’s not so bad-- as long as the trigger is in the pistol it’s not going to bend out of shape, and that same softness is an advantage when needing to bend it into shape—which is pretty much always. I try not not let any part of the trigger bow protrude into the mag chute. Often this means re-cutting the trigger bow cuts in the frame, which very often are deep on one side and shallow on the other. I have some special tools for that.


The weight champ in this pic is obviously the skeletonized plastic trigger with the narrowed bow. Some of these have a titanium bow, which helps a tiny bit. Titanium is the not the magic it is sometimes thought to be, think of it this way: a part made from steel weighs 3 pounds. The same part in aluminum will be 1/3 pound. The same part in Ti? 2/3 pound, so, double the weight of aluminum and only 30% lighter than steel. The bow made from steel or Ti makes little weight difference. The toughness dif between steel and Ti doesn’t make much dif in trigger bows as they are, like I mentioned, protected when inside the gun. The Ti is probably tougher than the stainless commonly used.


Downside to Colt triggers, of course, they are all steel and therefor heavy. I lighten them but there’s only so much you can do. 4.5-poun d trigger pull, can be OK with an unmodified Colt Gov’t short trigger, but a little lighter is a little better—and a little safer. In my book, and Gold Cup with the old steel wide trigger is closer to the edge than I want….. it begs to be replaced with something lighter, or at least lightened (230 grains).


The aluminum triggers pictured below will eventually get the shoe milled for less weight too. It won’t make a ton if difference but every little bit helps, maybe.

I always enjoy reading your posts and am fortunate to own one of your pistols, although I bought it lightly "used" from the original owner. I've carried and shot it enough (actually, a lot) that I've had it refinished, but mechanically it's great.
Your discussions about your craft remind me of an artist at work, an engineer building a high rise building. Thought and reason before product.

Rob

Every time I see there is a new post on this thread I wonder what will I learn today. Ned your work is amazing and the sharing of your knowledge is beyond what so many would do.

_________________
And this eternal resting place Is known as Fiddlers' Green.

Dropping the slide on an empty 1911-- I agree with the conventional wisdom that you shouldn't do it. Even though the reasons are largely misunderstood, and even though I sat here one day and did it 2500 times with no apparent ill effect (although, shortening the life of some parts may have occurred and I would not know that.)

Unfortunately, I feel it needs to be done prior to declaring a trigger job done and safe. I have it down to where the final thing I do is five slide drops, muzzle up, loose grasp on the gun. But I work my way to that point using a tool I made in the early 2000's, the Slide Whack Simulator, as I jokingly call it. It fits over the frame rails and the large brass weight is drawn back to a certain distance (there are graduations for how far). Then, let it go. If no hammer drop, you are there. I can leave the trigger pulled and cycle the fire control by cycling the SWS as would be done if it was a slide. As the body is Delrin, I feel no heebie jeebies about doing it a number of times. The brass weight hits the body of the tool and the whack is imparted to the frame through the Delrin.

Pics are from several projects back but I use it on every single one.

The mind boggles. One is struck speechless. Does SpaceX know you work at this level?

Trying to delete a double-post

I drop in a couple of times a week and at times sit here dumbfounded by the innovative approach you take to your job and building 1911's.

_________________
And this eternal resting place Is known as Fiddlers' Green.

A teaser for now.... a few more pics later.

Had the oppportunity yesterday to check out a specialized 1911 built by a guy who is low-key but highly experienced-- after many years of working at Wilson Combat and Guncrafter. This guy also is a top shooter who always can be found near or at the top in IDPA, Steel Challenge, any kind of revolver shooting, at a national level. And a long-time shooter of and winner at bowling pins.

This is his "Pinbuster", recently delivered and already with 1500 rounds through it. What a beauty it is, Melonited with TiN bits, and a "big ol' " comp. I have one little part to do with this gun, I had some comp blanks made for the guy. I'm proud to call "the guy" my cousin, Jess Christensen.

Multi-Event tool? Pin Gun with iron sights, and then Space Gun with optics and down-loaded ammo?

Not that Jess needs an advantage....

Not that he does. But this was for a customer of his, he's hung out his own shingle now. He's done a few of these with a few in the works but concentrating mostly on carry guns.

JC Custom, 870 654 2031



These attach to the bull barrel via two dowel pins.


Roughed out, they look like this. Jess has some in 7075 aluminum and some in prehard 4130.

Current project:

From the previous page, cutting a magwell blank from a blocvk of Crucible PH 4130.


Then, in recent days:



Taking shape. No CNC here, it’s all by hand. Well, largely by hand. No wire EDM, no CAD, just me and radius gages (this set, I got from Austin Behlert in the early 2000’s).


Radius gages are for roughing it. It’s surprising how well-balanced the two sides can be made just by silhouetting it against some sunlit floor.


Checking it in its intended future location. This is a magwell that is not “all out”, it’s a more reasonable size, more carry oriented than competition. And yet the final area will be generous, and it’s made from the right stuff.


Getting’ there. Ready for the welder soon.

That's the front strap profile roughly scribed into the purple.... far from round! But it's a good and thick one, no problem getting it into a perfect radius. Then.... it's early in the year but I go back to the Conamyd garden. Pretty sure I saw some sprouts coming up.

I put a few mags through the Pinwhacker yesterday and it is a great pin gun.

Meanwhile, in Arkansas, Jess was winning the revolver division of the Razorback Shootout IDPA, A regional Tier 3 match.

In class this week I had a chance to once again examine this high-miler. The way most things wear, you get to a certain point and the rate of wear stabilizes or slows. Working on getting a round count since last year.

Barrel wear, stabilized.... I'm going to guess the round count since the last pic is not more than 10K. It's not so unusual to see a locking lug cut show through into the bore. It looks like something, but is probably less than half a thousandth.

Breech face topography is coming back a little since getting stoned flat-ish last year.

The three-lug fit—it holds up forever. First time I did this was mid-late '80's. Granted this barrel has only been on this gun for I think now eight years but as of last year it had about 60K on it (much higher for the gun as a whole). There is absolutely no flanging / peening / movement of metal at the locking surfaces, as often is seen when a barrel is only locking on one lug. That’s common and I think not really a problem but for all the extra work that it is, I think there’s a payoff in durability which feeds into reliability and to some small extent, safety.

The requisite forward step. As I have often said, the mirror polish being long gone is no issue. It’s way more about the geometry / profile.

Sometimes to get feeding profiles just right, this has to happen. The forward step from frame feedramp to barrel is a must. If you have to do it, you do it.


Wear on the extractor—although Jeff does keep on checking extractor tension. This EGW extractor seems to work well, not sure if it is wearing more than others would but if it can go tens of thousands of rounds as this one has it must be good. Also it’s a good illustration of just where on the extractor the cartridge case is as it is being pulled from the chamber.

A real mule (endurance machine). The trigger guard looks a little Behlert-ish, eh? I always like his work. Bought a bunch of parts from him back in the day.
I wonder what the actual material thickness is at that point. I suspect more that you would guess. Just looking would lead you to believe that it is too thin.
How many times do you reasonably find that you can safely true the breech face before retiring the slide?
One of the most difficult things I've ever attempted. I succeeded after going through a couple barrels. I eventually just stopped with 2 lugs. Definitely worth it on a 10mm if you're going to shoot it much. Then Jerry Keefer and Chuck Warner went the other way with the 1 lug fit. Worked for them, although I have reservations about that due to the very small surface area of the lugs in contact. The actual surface area is a bit tough to calculate (area of a lune).
I've profiled barrels like that many times. The first couple were a bit nerve wracking. Interesting profile on the bottom edges of the hood. ???? Welded and recut or...?
Never had a bad part from George and crew. Thee are several good brands that are more nearly finished, but there are too many occasions when you need that little bit extra material usually only found on the EGW parts. I think of them as a nice blank canvas.

"Area of a lune," what does that mean?

The barrel hood has not been welded, what you're seeing is just some rather carelessy done chamfering (on my part).

Yeah that one-lug thing, I have never seen it. Seems like two would bne better than one, and three would be the ultimate.

That locking lug cut showing through, seems like most Kimbers have it and yet Kimer barrels typically group really well, once you re-chamber and throat them so they'll function.

Ned,

A lune is a crescent-shaped area bounded by two arcs.

The crescent moon is a lune. In its case, they are the same radius. But a lune can also be constructed with arcs of two different radii.

Hence the words luna and lunar for the moon?

In all my days of trig, geometry, CAD, and Machinery's Handbook, never heard the term!

Yeah, Patrick nailed it. I confess I never crossed paths with that in school either. Trig, Geometry, Calculus (twice, I'm apparently not gifted in that way). Only discovered it when I was searching for a way to calculate the area of a... 1911's lockup. Really. I talked to my sister-in-law about it after I discovered the concept in my searching. She has a PHD in math and had never encountered it either.

Check around the net and you will find some photos and discussions on the one lug thing. Keefer and Warner both addressed it in forums and on Facebook. Keefer's sponsored shooters were winning with his one lug barrels. Interesting concept whether you like it or not. I wouldn't do it on a 10mm for sure. I've never met a Kimber that didn't need the touch of a reamer and usually a little cleanup on the bottom lugs to eliminate barrel bump.

Yeah, Patrick nailed it. I confess I never crossed paths with that in school either. Trig, Geometry, Calculus (twice, I'm apparently not gifted in that way). Only discovered it when I was searching for a way to calculate the area of a... 1911's lockup. Really. I talked to my sister-in-law about it after I discovered the concept in my searching. She has a PHD in math and had never encountered it either.

Check around the net and you will find some photos and discussions on the one lug thing. Keefer and Warner both addressed it in forums and on Facebook. Keefer's sponsored shooters were winning with his one lug barrels. Interesting concept whether you like it or not. I wouldn't do it on a 10mm for sure. I've never met a Kimber that didn't need the touch of a reamer and usually a little cleanup on the bottom lugs to eliminate barrel bump.

I had the full four years of mathematics in school, starting with Calculus and going off into some really esoteric areas. The apex class was the culmination of the Chemistry, Physics, Electrical Engineering and Mathematics tracks, taught by the then-VP of the university.

The kind of class where the textbook is a 5"x8" volume of less than 100 pages. The first page has an equation at the top, and then the line "it can readily be derived" followed by another equation. We were lost before we got off of the first page.

When I graduated I could handle an equation-heavy discussion of almost any subject except Statistics. That was pure voo-doo.

This will be the first time I've ever uploaded a video to a forum, lessee how it works.....

Here I'm getting this made-from-scratch magwell smoothed up all over. The way it was made it was already pretty smooth but the outside profile still had a few areas that needed some final metal work with stones. Anyway, I want the vertical surface of it to be able to take a 400 or so polish, after blasting, for some nice contrast lines. So it has to be without divots or waves. I've hand-stoned lots of this kind of thing but the little ultrasonic unit sometimers is just the way to go. It's easy to control and fast.

Here's partway through the final process, a few areas needing a little more stoning:



Going at it with the u/s:
https://imgur.com/a/4MzELIl
.... and making sure I haven't left any flaws, by taking the polish up a little higher.
https://imgur.com/a/UGZNNAp

THAT is some very nice welding.

The following post is mostly about my "crew" at The Pin Shoot. Not casting myslef as the leader of said crew, I'm not, just that they are for sure "my good friends." Just a bunch of shooters who have gravitated together, and we stay at the same set of dandy cabins every year. There are many groups like this, and family groups, that attend The Pin Shoot. Lots of people come alone and for the first time and I think the majority of them would say they are welcomed warmly by the veterans of recent, and long ago, Pin Shoots...... goiing back to 1975 or so.

Post-Pin Shoot 2025 report and notes.

Pin gun by Jess Christensen, new this year. Now, the owner was already a good shooter but this year really excelled….. using this thing “didn’t hurt none.” He used Federal 230 HST as did a lot of people who “as of yet” don’t reload, or can afford not to. Round count is up over 4500 now, 1800 of them at TPS (The Pin Shoot). There is one just like it for sale, Email me for details. That’s not gold plating or gold paint, the gold parts are treated with TiAlN, so they are super-hard on the outside and that stuff will never wear off. This gun is “Pinbuster”.


Another pin gun new to the shoot this year, it’s been hanging fire and almost-done for a long time, “Pinsmyte”. The slide stop notch has been spot-hardened. Don ‘t worry, by next year’s TPS it will be polished out and the gun O.F. FRAG’d and blued….. hopefully.


I experimented a little with getting very mild loads to run out of the .50 GI pin gun “Pingelder.” I was determined that if it didn’t run with at least a 14 pound spring, that is, I didn’t want o go lighter, I would abandon the project, which I eventually did. So I decided to see what I could get on the top end with 185’s. No issue going to 1150 FPS but in pin load world that’s not remarkable. These are 185 .45’s in sabots for muzzle loaders, cut short. Nothing really accomplished in the end, but fellow .50 GI pin shooter “TC” has taken .50 cal. 185’s to 1300. That’s a 240 power factor (PF) and I imagine a good pin load, but it’s more than we really need for pins. At some point you start getting diminishing returns and become disadvantaged by recoil. I mean a hotter, faster load makes the comp work better but there’s a happy medium. 185’s that fast are also alarmingly loud!


Revolvers play a part. There are two revolver-only events and several events where you can opt to use one. I have shot it but little over the years, not much of a revolver guy I guess. But I finally got someone to use an idea of mine (and others, I’m sure), that is, using bullets loaded backwards, or as above, 230 grain DEWCs (double-ended wadcutters). In the revo event there is a mandatory reload, so he used the DEWCs as the first six and then hardball for a speedy reload. The DEWCs had to be turned down a few thou per side where they protrude from the case for easy chambering. That full-diameter flat end makes a good pin bullet.

Long-time enthusiasts abound at TPS!


“Why eye protection is important in any kind of shooting.”:


Jess C. was second this year in Revolver with an 8.6, after Barney Niner with an 8.0, that's for 8 pins with a reload in there.... darned fast. Barney is there every year and is a top shooter. Jess is a top shooter nationally at Steel Challenge, Bianchi Cup, and IDPA. Reloads are a big part of doing well in competition with a revolver and Jess’s reloads are magical. I filmed one in slo-mo just to try and see what’s happening! Jess's equipment chilling on the rail between sets.


“Simo” lurks, anxiously awaiting another turn at giving bowling pins what they deserve. I mean, if a gun could be panting with its tongue out in anticipation of action, it would be Simo in this pic. “TC”, The Colonel (Phil Farr), got called up to the prize tables possibly more than anyone. He also won Tuesday’s Springfield shootoff with, as I recall, a blazing 3.7 seconds. It’s a man-on-man event but timers time the shooters just the same in case of a photo finish, of which there are many.


Home-built pin guns are common and most are more than good enough for pin work! It doesn't have to be fancy, it just need to go bang every time.



Guys make or have made, compensators for everything. They range from mild to wild! Here’s one on a 12-gage-


AR15. The owner agrees it will erode out but in the meantime, it works, The game is “the advantage now,” not “the advantage forever.”


One of the sponsors of TPS, from the area, deserves a pic: a veretern-owned biz that stands out for having really, truly, good coffee…..


My 1991 pin gun… cracks continue but at a very slow pace.This is typical for high-milers.



My Pingelder .50 didn’t get as much use this year as usual, about 300 rounds I’d say.


Fluted barrel hoods are not my thing but Guncrafter does it right. Glad I went with one of their barrels, it is primo…. Mirror-finished inside and the chamber was perfectly concentric which I don’t always see even in some of the top brands.

This just in from TC..... I don't know how he gets things so clean but it's a big deal to him. "My weapons, my gear, me." Not sure if that's his personal mantra or a Marines thing, but he does live by it.

That blast face seems to be showing some wear. Good thing you put the metal par tin, and didn't just depend on the Delrin.

Good times and good people.

It is showing some erosion. When it was all Delrin, erosion was as expected-- more, quicker. Page 12 of this thread shows the adding of the aluminum sleeve and blast face. I'm a little surprised at the front erosion, but that plate is 6061, much softer than the 7075 of the rear sleeve. Good thing I made two of them although I think it is still years away from needing replacement. Of clourse, with TC you never know. My .50 hardly gets shot in the off-season, his does.

Two years ago at TPS, I reluctantly loaned out my pin gun. There is some sharing of guns of there; I have a strong pref to neither borrow nor loan guns, but once in a great while I have done both. After receiving my pin gun back, my chereished .45 that I did for myself in 1991-- which, I very, very rarely do a complete gun for myself, I shot it in an event the barrel foot sheared off. Not necessarily related to the loan out but still I wish I hand't because there will always be that doubt!

So this year-- after replacing the broken BarSto with a Kart, and that is no small amount of work on a gun with a compensator, I bulged the Kart. Lack of attention on my part! I was letting one of the young timers try it out and it short cycled, catching the empoty in the ejection port. These were lighter-than-pin loads and I thought, OK, it's just the small hands and arms plus the gun being sprung for pin loads that caused it to short cycle. I cleared it and chambered another round. It fired and the slide would not go back into battery...... because that short-cycle had been, I guess, and undercharged round (first time ever in decades of reloading). The bullet stock apparently about 3/8" back from the muzzle. That is also unusual for a squib. Anyway, bullet in barrel plus "new bullet, comin' through!". Bulge time!

I have MagnaFlux'd it and no apparent crack. Not time to really work on it now but I will probably just turn the comp's gooseneck OD back down so the slide will close and try shooting it as-is-- I preduct it will be OK. It's only a couple thousandths, hopefull the barrel didn't shorten too much in the process but if it did, I will reduce the length of the slide a few thou or whatever it takes to get it to go into battery.