ltwguns.com

Project in the future but I thought I'd get my head straight.

~ Are S&W sights too fragile for 10mm recoil? I'm just not a fan of big Bomars and would probably stick with a Yost retro fixed as alternative.

~ Would Barsto or Kart be better choice for 10mm?

~ Just for fun, would you do simple and retro, or go all out like the stuff CT Brian does or that cool 38 Super by Legacy Custom that I saw on this post. I'm torn.

Just my .02

For a rugged, lo-profile adjustable the NEW IMPROVED Novak adjustable is hard to beat or also the new Caspian tactical adjustable. Adjustable sights are a good idea in 10mm since you can shoot 135-210 grain bullets and that can cause quite a shift in POI. I would definately pass on the S&W adjustable sight.

In high pressure cartridges like 10mm, 9x23 and major 9mm, some of the IPSC boys are using Schuemann AET barrels since the gain twist may lessen peak pressures. All three of the barrels are good choices. I prefer the AET in 10mm for the reason stated above but also becasue the ramp has a unique curvature that enhances feeding in my experience. The curved ramp helps eliminate nose-down jams which are exacerbated by the heavier recoil springs necessary for 10mm.

I think the AET costs $20 more than a comparable Bar-Sto and about $50 more than the Kart. You will have to by a .40 barrel and have it finish reamed as Schuemann does not sell a barrel chambered in 10mm.
You may want to consider a bull barrel also in 10mm. More barrel weight in that cartridge is probably a good thing.

The Legacy custom .38 was my favorite gun from the SHOT show booth. It blew me away!

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As a starting point, this info may be helpful...

http://www.geocities.com/mr_motorhead/10tech.html

I've actually gone both routes with custom Delta Elites; a more "custom-looking" job I had Dane Burns do to an "Enhanced" Delta with a Bar-Sto barrel, and a "Retro-Rocket" done by Ted Yost on a pre-"Enhanced" Delta that was mostly stock-looking outside, and had a Schuemann AET barrel inside.





For me, giving up the beavertail and big thumb safety didn't really change much as far as the "shootability" of the guns went, and I actually like the sight picture on the fixed Yost sights better than that on the Novaks.

I can't speak to all the claimed benefits of the AET barrel, but I can say it is accurate to an extreme degree. The combination of the AET bull barrel with the EGW firing pin stop, 20lb recoil spring + buffer, and whatever the hell else Ted did made for a very subjectively nice to shoot piece. The Burns gun with the Bar-Sto bushing barrel, standard FP stop and 20lb recoil spring + buffer was different; faster-shooting but tougher on the shooter, if that makes any sense. Put another way, I think the Burns gun would have had fractions of a second on the Yost gun in a speed-shooting competition, but you could shoot the Yost gun twice as long without it wearing you out.

(This speaks more to how I had the guns spec'ed out, than to differences in Ted's or Dane's work, I think).

In theory, I definitely see the benefits of adjustable sights over fixed sights on a 10mm gun. But I never really had POA/POI issues worth noting with my fixed-sight 10mms. Then again, I pretty much stuck to 165-180gr loads. [/i]

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Sean Smith
"Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that?" -Jack Burton, Big Trouble in Little China

Well, I'm tending to lean toward a standard bushing barrel set up vs a bull barrel. I have not seen the "new and improved" Novak or the Caspian adjustable so I guess I'll do a search.

Are the Schuemann barrels all bull barrel set ups with ramps? I'm going to avoid ramp barrels too.

I do tend to like "sleeper" guns that look stock but shoot like a bullseye gun. But lately, some of these guns being posted are just COOL looking. Will I get tired of the look eventually and yearn for the "classic" look? Who knows!

Hey Sean,
I LOVE spur hammers but was worried about the 10mm biting with one and no beavertail. I was considering a spur hammer but with a beavertail because I thought the recoil would make the hammer dig in. Any problems with that?

Sean,

Great page on the 10mm 1911. Smart, well written and informative. Thanks. I've bookmarked it in the unlikely event that I'll ever find a reasonable Delta Elite out here in the PRK. I SO regret selling the one I had.

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"Suppose they gave a war, and nobody came?
Why then, the war would come to you!"
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Schuemann makes both bushing and non-bushing barrels. I think all his .400" caliber barrels are ramped, though. I've used both kinds in 10mm, and both can work fine.
Nope. I get bit all the time by spur hammers on 1911s, BHPs and SIG P210s, but no bite from my Delta due to the way Ted bobbed the hammer (it is both shortened and under-cut). That's including with Cor-Bon hunting hammo.

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Sean Smith
"Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that?" -Jack Burton, Big Trouble in Little China

Thanks Sean,
Is that a standard Colt 1991A1 spur hammer and milspec style grip safety that was rounded (or did Ted just grind down that long tang stock Delta Elite)?

It's a standard Colt government model grip safety & spur hammer.

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Sean Smith
"Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that?" -Jack Burton, Big Trouble in Little China

With a match barrel, is there a significant difference in POI between lighter 135gr and 200gr bullets (okay, I know there are a lot of variables and every gun is different)? I'm fighting the thoughts of adjustable sights and was wondering if setting the sights at 150 or 180gr or somewhere in between would make all weights hit at fairly close to that POI and then just change hold depending on bullet weight. Thoughts?

Is this going to be a range gun, carry gun or hiking gun, or just do it all type of blaster? I went
with Heinie Straight 8 Slant-Pro's (slightly modified) on my Delta, and I shoot everything
offered in 10mm. I've got the gun sighted in for 165gr Tritons, which are sooooooo dead on-
but everything else shoots very close anyway (Bar-Sto barrel). I've taken many coyotes
out at 120-150 yards with little difficulty, with Cor-Bon 135, 155 and DoubleTap 155 and
165, and a mule deer at about 100 yards with Cor-Bon 200gr hunting load. I also shot a
javelina with the Silvertip 175 at about 300 yards, but it did take a few ranging shots.....

Well, there will be some difference with any barrel due to the velocity difference, and resulting difference in bullet drop. But the difference between 1,000 ft/sec and 1,500 ft/sec at 50 yards (150') isn't really that much... like 5/100ths of a second difference in flight time (very roughly). If the bullet drops at 32 ft/sec-squared, that's a difference of (again very roughly) 1.6" @ 50 yards. With 3" @ 50 yards being a realistic accuracy expectation for the gun, you can see that this isn't a really big deal unless you are shooting a bullseye match. Just have it zeroed for ammo going 1,200-1,300 ft/sec and you'd be pretty much set.

(And yes, these are all very crude estimates on my part...).

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Sean Smith
"Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that?" -Jack Burton, Big Trouble in Little China

And yes, these are all very crude estimates on my part...).....

Damn Sean, I was thinking maybe you had that beautiful mind thing going.....

More like a copy of Excel open.

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Sean Smith
"Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that?" -Jack Burton, Big Trouble in Little China

Since I'm greatly anticipating the arrival of a Delta purchased from a fellow member (Thanks!), I'm also considering some necessary mods. Does anyone have any thoughts on guide rod recoil reducers (Harrts or tungsten, etc) with regard to wear/tear. I plan to use the heavier loads for hunting and duty use. I'm a GI setup kinda guy and don't care for Shok-Buffs but I may have to alter my usual setup to protect my investment. Thanks.

And along that line, what is harder on the frame of a DE: Light and fast bullets or the heavier 200gr but slower?

Who knows? I haven't even seen frame wear on a Delta I've owned yet.

If you shoot alot of really light-n-fast jacketed loads, you might wear out the barrel first...
AFAIK they don't do anything at all as far as that goes.

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Sean Smith
"Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that?" -Jack Burton, Big Trouble in Little China

I, personally, think it'd be fun to shoot any 10mm enough to get it to fall to pieces. I was really hesitant to shoot heavy loads in any of my 10mms early on. I'd always handload around 5-10% under book max loads, which are already far from the original factory spec. Not until Dave Sams built me a 10mm Commander on a Caspian frame and slide did I begin to realize that the hubbub about the 10mm destroying guns was a matter of ignorance in maintenance/setup or simply some tall tales of yesteryear. I have 6 10mm 1911s in all, ranging from the commander-length Caspian to a heavy longslide, and as Sean stated, I can't even see wear on them. I shoot factory loads a good bit, but I try to keep handloads near the upper end of the 10mm spectrum just because that's what it was meant to do. If I don't want or need the power I pick up a 45. If you and your chosen 'smith use good sense when doing build spec's, you have little to worry about.

FWIW, I don't use any buffer in the commander sized Caspian gun (it won't run reliably with them), and use a 24# recoil spring. I change springs every 1500 rounds just to be sure, and I couldn't begin to tell you how many rounds it has through it now.

My advice is to get a Delta, figure out what you want and don't want, and let the selected pistol/gunsmith make it work. I really like all of mine and if one ever breaks due to non-abuse I will most certainly let everyone know.

If you build it (or have it built), you will not regret it. Do It, Man! Good luck.

~Jim Keeney


Caspian Commander-Sized 10mm



Sams Custom Gunworks Delta Elite 10mm


Sams Custom Caspian Longslide and Caspian Shorty 10mm


SCG Razorback 10mm


SCG Para Ordnance/Caspian 10mm


Most of the Family

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"I'd rather die on my feet than keep living on my knees." - Emiliano Zapata, Mexican Revolutionary

Now, who to build this is a whole nudder topic!

True, that. Lots of guys can do it, but lots of guys... not so much. You want somebody reputable with a 10mm track record. Alot of good 'smiths haven't played with 10mm and aren't interested to, and others think it is a neat cartridge. 10mm guns aren't rocket science, but they are less forgiving of builder mistakes. Consider that you are potentially doubling the muzzle energy of GI hardball in some cases.

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Sean Smith
"Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that?" -Jack Burton, Big Trouble in Little China

Ok, starting with Ted Yost, who else is a 10mm pro?

Hoser,

Other than Ted Yost I'd go with Dave Sams (built all of mine), Ned Christiansen (builds absolutely amazing 10mms and anything else he touches), and likely anyone else on this forum. I've seen a Chuck Rogers Delta Elite that was simple but elegant and had a very classic look to it... dunno about any else. I guess it all depends on who has a style you like and a waiting list you can live with. I know Dave Sams builds a lot of guns for guys in CA and doesn't really have a style, per se. He just builds what you want and how you want it to look. Check around, but make sure you build one... then show us.

~Jim Keeney

_________________
"I'd rather die on my feet than keep living on my knees." - Emiliano Zapata, Mexican Revolutionary

In addition to Jim's list, I belive Don Williams does a fair amount of 10mm work too.

_________________
Sean Smith
"Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that?" -Jack Burton, Big Trouble in Little China