ltwguns.com

Generally speaking, do the custom builders use a full length guide rod or the standard Gi shorty plug? Is there any advantage to using a tungstun guide rod over a steel?

Thanks

Jerry Snyder

The trend has been to get away from full length guiderods. It seems that they don't really do anything and make it harded to take the pistol down. Most builders are using the standard GI rod.

I think? tungsten (sp?) is used mostely in race guns to add wait to the front, but I'm not sure.

I have used both long and short rods and personally can't notice a difference.

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Building Hand Crafted Leather for the 1911 Platform

This is a recurring question but a legit one.

I've proven to my satisfaction that there is no accuracy or reliability advantage to having one. There is no question that they make takedown more difficult, be it a one piece or a two-piece FLGR. They can make takedown dangerous, even, talking here about the increased likelihood of getting a recoil spring plunger in the eye.

They do make some guns feel smoother in hand-cycling, and if you want a heavier gun as some do, it's a handy place to add the weight.

Hey Ned, good info but what about Tungstun - what do they do - anything?

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Tungsten is just heavier

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Ned,

Is there are reliability disadvantage of a once piece rod. I can see a reliability disadvantage to the 2 piece rod since he can come apart.

Thanks
Lester

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Lester Wang

Tungsten makes the gun a little heavier in the nose. Some claim it helps the gun shot flatter. I played around with one and found it did nothing what so ever to reduce my splits. Since I wasn't gaining any competitive advantage from one I sold it off and went with the GI in all my 1911's. Some guys swear by them. Maybe I am just not good enough to take advantage of the difference.

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"Domari Nolo"

I would have to agree with NED on the reliability issue. I always felt that a 1 piece rod improved the longevity and effective life of the spring though. A spring works best in straight compression and a full length rod does just that, keeps it straight. To my way of thinking this is probably not much of a factor unless your shooting tens of thousands of rounds, but an extra 500 to 1000 rounds of ammo per spring before changing them does add up. I personaly like a Ti guiderod. 1 piece.

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cvwinabq@live.com
Rio Rancho New Mexico

"I like double barrels....Aprilia, Ducati, and sxs rifles"

Lester, not that I can see.

Ned,...that eyeball thing reminded me of armorers classes in the military..at Aberdeen Proving Grounds , we were doing the first series of classes on the M9, ( the minute the slide assembly was released from the frame (as taught,upside down and backwards) ALL the instructors would disappear behind the desks, as a barrage of guide rods hit the wall..too funny..

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Rio Rancho New Mexico

"I like double barrels....Aprilia, Ducati, and sxs rifles"

ive personally experienced a 2piece rod that would start working itself apart after about 20rds. or so....

im on the standard plug bandwagon....

I don't care if they do anything or not. I have always liked them and have used them for years. I do not understand the problem with the dissasembly as I use the One Piece CMC's until they quit selling them.
I also like Shok-Buffs and use them in all my Toy Guns. I am not going with the current trends that are just opinions. I like the feel of a 1911 that has a guide rod in it when I pull the slide back. I have never cared much about what other folks do. That is fine with me! I do what I want to do.

I'm with you Dave...and i never suffered a guide rod problem, even with a two piece rod. lots of other brainfarts,...but never that one.

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Rio Rancho New Mexico

"I like double barrels....Aprilia, Ducati, and sxs rifles"

I had that happen to me at the range once, so I put a very small amount of Loc-Tite on the threads, then at the next cleaning I could barely separate the two pieces. So needless to say I went back to the GI style. I thought about getting a full-length one-piece model but I figured it was a $40 solution to a non-existent problem.

you can drill a small hole through the threaded portion and insert a piece of nylon(weedeater string or equiv. )through it. cut the string off just above the top of the threads. old trick...works well. just enough friction to hold th pieces together

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Rio Rancho New Mexico

"I like double barrels....Aprilia, Ducati, and sxs rifles"

they have about 6differant grades of loctite. i think the one for sights would probably work pretty good....

blue works well.

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cvwinabq@live.com
Rio Rancho New Mexico

"I like double barrels....Aprilia, Ducati, and sxs rifles"

I recently started swapping out some of my full length guide rods for shorter ones. I got the wrong part sent to me (this was for an Officer length slide), so I just cut it down. Is there a standard on length that short guide rods should be, or is it reasonable to use the same short rod for all slide lengths?

(In Brownells, they show different spring guides, with different lengths, for a commander and a govt model - p107 from Ed Brown).

thank you

Richard

I've always used stainless steel 2 pc FLGRs made either by Wilson, Nowlin or Brown (more Wilson than any) and never had one loosen, on any of my presonal pistols. I was told somewhere to degrease the threads and keep them oil-free and they'll never loosen. I have seen carbon steel guide rods loosen, but don't know if they did that due to oil or material.

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The grand essentials to happiness in this life are something to do, something to love and something to hope for.

One thing I've never personally seen is one coming unscrewed in use-- to my continuing surprise.

I generally tell folks that although I don't prefer them, if they want one they ought to have one-- it is not that big a deal for the user. My biggest objection is if you need a bushing wrench, Allen wrench, or paper clip to get your gun apart. That's not an issue for most of us but would be for a guy in, say, Kandahar. My other gripe is that, as a gunsmith, I might have a guy's gun apart and together many, many times, so little inconveniences like guide rods and ambi safeties become big inconveniences. I try not to let that color my opinion on items like these but.... I really don't care for either.

On the other hand, my three main 1911's have them. That's just because that's how old they are-- they are from a time when I put them in because every customized gun had them, and I was afraid if I didn't have them, folks would think I was behind the curve. I'd change them back in a heartbeat but they have the flanged, reverse plugs, so they stay guide-rodded until I can get around to making new plugs from scratch.

Two weeks ago at a local IPSC match I saw a guy launch his tungsten guide rod 10 yards down range during the match. Gun worked just fine after it puked out the guide rod but even the "one" piece rods fail. I never understood why tungsten guide rods are marketed as one piece as they are made out of two seperate materials.

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"Domari Nolo"

I used to build guns with reverse plugs that had to have guide rods and did not have bushings. That may be the time when I thought they were cool. I used a paper clip for them. I always use a Kings Bushing wrench for disassembly so that is why I didn't notice a problem that some of you have.
If the front part of a two piece rod leaves, you are simply back the the GI type recoil spring guide. The two piece are a pipe thread that is tapered and will tighten up great with an Allen Wrench.
I don't like Guide Rods in Commanders, as a rule, because I view them as serious carry guns that may need to be cocked on a belt, ot the edge of a table, or................whatever. They have their place if you like them.

Any reason why a pistol that once had a GI guide and plug suddenly feels like it cycles more consistently (as is smoothly, not as in reliably) with a FLGR?

I have experienced this quite noticeably with a Colt Delta Elite and less noticeably with other pistols. The only conclusion that sprang to mind is the FLGR is forcing the slide to move less in the directions perpendicular (cycles only in parallel) to the frame rails.

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Scott

you are right on track..EXCEPT that it is the spring that is now operating straight. imagine compressing a 1/2 inch spring in a 3/4 hole..thats whats happening without a flgr.

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cvwinabq@live.com
Rio Rancho New Mexico

"I like double barrels....Aprilia, Ducati, and sxs rifles"

Chuck is right on. The guide rod controls the recoil spring and keeps it from snaking up inside the the dust cover. I hate that crunchie stuff in my guns, but have no problem if you guys like it.

On the other hand, the work we do inside the gun helps eliminate that somewhat as we put a high polish on the inside of the dust cover. I have been building guns like this for over 20 years and it was one of the first things I started doing to my Custom Guns. Our GSP EX 1911's are pretty smooth with the old GI stuff that Gunsite likes. I can't hardly tell the difference in them!

With one-piece FLGR, is there a legit concern of ruining a (tight) barrel to bushing fit by turning a bushing over the tightest, unrelieved part of the barrel?

Sorry. I do not understand the question.

i think he is saying, with a flgr you cannot pull the slide out of battery 3/4" to make it easier to spin the bushing. this being on a custom,super tight, fitted barrel...

i would like to hear from some of the big time smiths on here, what their opinion is on the reliability issue. that being some believe a flgr helps the spring from binding.

i personally think it is nonsense, and have never had any problems. but then again "who am i" ?

im not a tactical swat operator, or havent shot 1million rounds in my short life. but i have shot enough, and have a very good idea on how "machined" things work. (a machinist in my former life)

just my opinion. curious to what others think.....

My bad, let me clarify: when I take apart a gun with GI recoil rod, I push out the slide stop, take off the slide/barrel/plug/spring assemby, remove the the rod, spring, and the plug, then push barrel forward. After that, when I turn the bushing, the rotational contact of bushing to barrel is minimal because middle portion of the barrel is not fitted to the bushing as tightly as muzzle portion.
With one-piece FLGR one is forced to turn the bushing when barrel is locked up. In this situation, the contact between the barrel and bushing is the tightest possible. I wonder if repetitive turning of the bushing can affect a fit in a long run.

P.S. I type too slow, thanks for help, c.rod.

I think it could be, YK. Things'd have to be real tight all round for it to be, but it could be. Another thing I kinda don't like about them.

Another advantage I suppose you could ascribe to the FLGR: makes the gun a better face poker by a small margin. Not likely you'll ever need that though.

And-- they definitely do guide the spring better, and sure, that's why they make the guns hand-cycle smoother. That is a hard to resist improvement, as it does feel so much better, but I just haven't seen it translate into increased reliability or accuracy. I have had the chance to group a few guns over the years with and without FLGR's, I mean, within the same hour with the same ammo-- could not discern a dif.