ltwguns.com

Looking for a somewhat hardy dull matte black finish. I called the Colt factory and they told me they offer matte blueing for $165. Anybody here offer a dull black finish (no shiny polished slide flats) that can take some honest holster wear?

I have to admit that I am really impressed with EGW's new finish e-treat. I was at George's shop three weeks ago having him look at a problem child and we got on the subject of finishes. While we are talking he pulls out a matte black slide and handed me a folding knife and told me to have at it. After hacking and scraping the slide with a very sharp knife for a couple of minutes I'll be dammed if there was a single scratch on that slide. While we didn't get into specs about how the finish is applied and its hardness from my very unscientific study I can conclude that it probably is as tough as tenifer or tungsten DLC.

I am so impressed that I am going to have one of my stainless guns re-finished with it.

Sent you a PM.

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Jeff

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Thanks very much,
Robert (13.45)
NRA Benefactor Life member

Thanks for the plug!

What was not funny was a guy walked in and I went to do the demo grabbed the wrong slide and took a sliver off a just blued slide
Opps. Next time I need to make sure I grab the Etreat slide.

Forever we have wanted a serious non paint finish that would hold up to holster wear on a gun but still be black. Glock has a good thing going and blows away bluing that is all of a couple millionths thick. Nothing worse than having a 2500.00 and drawling it 50 times to see holster wear.

We have been on this for over half a year. Test slides, check before and after for any signs of trouble, change, consistant color etc. Sent out parts and had them analized and micro hardness tested etc. I will try to get my web master to post a video clip of the "knife test". We did some salt water tests in sea water for a couple days too and that worked great.

Cost will be about the same as plating 250.00 for a 1911.
We will probably do a run once a month to 6 weeks.
turn around time at that point should be 2 weeks which is reasonable.
We are working on Dealer pricing also.

Again thank you for the plug!
geo

Thanks for coming in with info on this, George. That sounds very interesting.

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Sic Semper Tyrannis

Well there you have it from the man himself.

Mr. Smith - Is this etreat a PVD coating? I have a gun with boron carbide coating, and I like it, but it's a finish no longer readily available.
A truly hard, durable, black coating - that can be had by anyone with the money to pay for it - would be a real advance in gun finishing.

Hi Rick,

No, it is not a PVD coating, that stuff works great on endmills though.
Tin etc.

geo

George, I think we'd love to see some pictures if you have any.

Tantalizing. So it doesn't adversely affect the heat-treat of the parts like doing tenifer to an already finished part would? I may have to look at this coating for one of my 1911s that needs to be refinished again.

George was kind enough to show me some cross section pictures of the metal after treatment yesterday when I was in his shop. Since he is the expert on metallurgy and I am not I will defer to him here, but I do know enough about the subject to know that it looks really promising.

Fair question. We took a Caspian slide that was treated and a caspian slide that was not treated. We milled into the side of the slide down .025 that would clear any affected zones. the two slide were less than 1 point apart on the Rockwell C scale. This is a std Rockwell tester, not a superficial tester. the diamond penetrates deeper, even the surface test was within 1 point, but harder than the core.

thank you
geo

Okay Mr. Smith, you have piqued my interest. I'll be a test case for the board and send you my pistol. Any idea on how long turnaround time would be if I also have you install new fire control components and fit the thumb safety to the new sear? I've got about 10,000 rounds through this gun and the sear finally gave up the ghost.

I am also going to be a test case. John Harrison has my SA Mil-Spec in for some ergonomic changes, and he asked me if I wanted to try the new EGW finish. Of course I said, "Yes" as I have been looking for a dark, hard, and durable finish with corrosion resistance.

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Scott

Actually we did shop guns for test cases, first slides that we had milled and cut on, than after it was sorted out, actual bullet launchers.

Next we did 7 guns for customers, local or frequent customers that were willing to jump into the cage and try it. Yesterday one came in with over 100 draws on his gun. and over 500 rounds. Not a difinitive test, but inside the slide on the top lugs, the slide is pefrect. and the corners that went into a tight holster, not a mark.

Again, we would not offer it unless we tested it and used it on our own guns first.

geo

Scott:
If that Milspec of yours looks good, I'm going to have to have this finish applied to my blaster also.

I think I came across the wrong way, Mr. Smith- I'm not questioning you or your product. Based on the reputation your shop and your other products have, I have no doubt that you thoroughly wrung this out prior to offering it. I do know that people on this and other gun boards like to hear first-hand accounts of how things hold up on other members' guns. I have a gun that I was going to have hard chromed anyway, as it's on blue job #2. I might as well have your finish applied instead, and then I can give a first-hand report to the other members here who might be curious. If it sounded like I was questioning any of your statements about your finish I apologize, such was not my intent.

If the finish holds up like the test data suggests (and I have no reason to doubt George Smith), a few more of my pistols will get this finish.

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Scott

Sparky I don't think that was directed at you. I think George was trying to explain how they went about testing the finish before offering it to the general public.

First he tried it on slides, then on guns, then on guns of customers that they have a really good relationship with, which makes sense in my book because if the finish doesn't work out well they are less likely to run to the message boards and cry about it. Now the rest of us can give it a go.

Just wanted to make sure I had not inadvertantly offended. I've been known to do that from time to time

The finish does sound very good- if it works well on my old gun, I might have it done on an upcoming project.

Questions, questions - what type of prep work is required and is it included in the price? What about tritium sights - do they have to be removed? Are all the inside parts - sear, disconnector, barrel, etc., except the springs done? When do we get some pictures?

I AM SO STOKED Since my number is up at EGW and they will be building me a tactical dream gun once again.

Will it work on stainless?
Will it go over chrome?
etc
etc
etc

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And now George is holding his head, moaning "What have I done?"

Big ole' bump for more details.

From what I was told yes and yes.

I have been reading all I can on finishes as I have a Kimber that needs to be redone- it is way passed scratched up. I even use it in a Kydex holster!!! I love blueing but...it does hurt to get it redone and then after one day at the range, have scratches. I never could see the point of spraying/painting/baking a finish on, it just doesn't seem right. I had pretty much settled on Black T just try. I think I'll wait now.

Do you have any pictures of the finish?

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Hard work pays off

Sparky,
No offence taken, the internet tends to thicken ones skin over time

I tried to upload some photos but my files are too large and espically lately we are OVER blessed with work, nice problem to have.

I did manage to get some pictures of with some captions on our site if you don't mind taking a peek. Of course you will have to buy 200.00 worth to view the gallery NOT.

http://www.egw-guns.com

thank you all for the interest.
geo

ps
SS no problem
Aluminum no way!
Carbon steel no problem either.
If you catch us at the right time, like 3 days before we send 4 guns out the delivery time will be 2 -3 weeks.

Look the pictures over, there are marks on the mag catch of the gun and E-treat like hard chrome does nothing to hide flaws. Aluminum Oxide does hide more than glass bead though, just like on plated guns.

Price is 250.00 which includes the robery that the UPS and Fed Ex somehow have leagalized for us to send the guns out and back from treating.

George,

Thanks for the pics and the additional info. The finish really deas appear to be a very positive option for refinishing. One that I am considering on a soon [hopefully] to be started rebuild on an old Colt Combat Commander.

I had some follow-up questions based on your pictures. As we all know, pictures and lighting and even the montior settings one uses on their PC's display can effect how the pictures viewed look. My questions are in an attempt to link the aesthetics of your finish with the two prep options to some finsihes everyone is familair with.

From reading your descriptions, is it fair to say that the AL oxide prep will produce a final finish that is more like parkerizing in appearance than other finishes?

If so, do you think it would have some of the same oil holding properties that parkerizing has for corrosion resistance?

Can the AL oxide prep be done on carbon steel frames, slides and parts?

Does the glass bead prep resemble an NP3 finish or 'coated' finish or is the minimal surface thickness such that it more closely resembles something else like say a tennifer finish on a highly polished surface? The pictures of the bead prep'ed Colt look almost like an NP3 finish to my untrained eye. It might be the slight gray tint I pick up on my monitor that has left this impresion.

I was seriously considering a military style park job on my Commander rebuild because...well because that is the look I like and parkerizing has served me well in the past. So given that preference, and your descriptions...how close to that dull, matte park'd look does the AL oxide prep and finish get you?

Lastly, as if I haven't eaten up enough bandwidth already in questions, what would the AL oxide prep and finisihing do to the roll marks on an older COlt? The dancing pony's has its feet at the moment....I was really hoping that he would once I was done.

Thanks in advance for considering my questions and thanks as well for your efforts in advancing a new finish alternative.

Hog

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"Man is free at the moment he wishes to be."
-Voltaire

I'm really excited about this finish. It seems like it is a very hard and durable finish - is it pretty good at preventing corrosion too? I know shouldn't get my nice blued guns wet, but I just took a class this weekend and it was raining. The instructor was ex-military and said we shoot rain or sunshine. I about had a heart attack watching my blued gun get soaked.

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Hard work pays off