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I have three older Colt 1911s from the 1960's that were made into bullseye target guns by Clark and Giles. Should I have the bars removed from the slides and new sight put on or leave them as they are? Will they be more valuable as is or refinished?

My answer would be yes. I restored one last year for my best pal. Then he sold it!
You can fill the holes in the slide with set screws Lok-Tite them in with 640 green, and then file them smooth. Then set them up with sights by someone like Ted, Chuck, or Don. Re-finish the slides and you would be good to go. My price would be like $300.00 but I am closed now. I like Melted Bo Mars, but I am very old fashioned.

Here is that Bullseye Gun back in the saddle again!

Mr. Sample... Were you a professional gunsmith? I've seen you post quite a few guns lately and on some of them have to wonder who would have done that work?

I would leave them like they are. Old man Clark and Giles arent building them anymore. Show them the respect they deserve by posting some photos and leaving them alone. Or sell them to someone who appreciates old school work (there are a few of us out here) and put the money towards good components and a decent base gun. Base guns are a dime a dozen. Why use one of those old works of art when you can buy a $400-$500 SA or Colt.

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Gary Eastridge
http://www.randgfirearms.com

To each his own

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My future's determined by Thieves, thugs, and vermin
My rights are denied by Those least qualified
Everything's backwards In Americana

Colt Fan: I was the Managing Director and CEO of Queen City Furnishings,Contract Illumination Ltd.,and Eagle Resources Ltd. I was a Captain on the Las Animas Country Sheriff's Department, a slick sleeve patrolman on the Parker, CO PD, Chief of Security of Larimer Square and Denver Country Club all in good old Colorado. I was a Real Estate Broker for 25+years and at one time was Colorado's Number One Land Salesman. My last Job involved being a Private Patrol Officer with Heather Ridge Security Police (Now ASI) in Aurora Co, where I left and came to AZ. I also have had a few dozen other meaniless jobs along the line, the very least of which was building Custom 1911's for 20 some years part time. My goal was to build very fine custom 1911's without a machine shop, and that is what I did. I learned to bead blast them, blue them, and to nickle plate them along the way. I much preferred making $1000.00 an hour in the Land Business.
I considered myself a professional in many fields, but the 1911 field was not one of them. I have suffered much ridiclule from the "Professionals" because I did not see this as a viable full time occupation and still don't. I have never tried to hide the fact that I was a part timer then and am now.
The folks that have seen the work in person at the Shot Show and around this little hick town do not have much to say about it. The best thing that they can do is say nothing because there is not much bad to say.
I am tolerated here on this forum to some extent, although about half of my posts disappear. I see the stuff I was doing a long time ago here and it's a delight to me. These people are also trying to raise some bucks with their talent and skills and that pleases me also. I care not what they think of me and what I do. I like them a lot! Several of them on this forum have been a great help to me along the way with their skill with managing machines.
I have just booked my 8th Online 1911 Class and this will put us well over 100 Students that I have taught the Art of the 1911 to in words and pictures over the Interent. The only reason I started this Online Adventure was because the "Professionals" said I couldn't do it! It took 10 days to fill the 12 openings.
If it weren't closed, I would not have mentioned it. I don't need to troll the Internet for students as they somehow seem to find me. Detractors who know nothing about it help me more than rave reviews................ So that is the story up to now. I am 74 and have coronary heart disease, diabetes, and a few other aliments which are fatal so I hope to leave the Planet soon. I think I can get one more class done, though, at least, that is the plan...........................................until then I will be messing around with guns! " Grand Adventures are not all May Sunshine and Pony Rides", but I prefer them to the Life of Quiet Desperation that most men live.

Hey Dave? What did you do in life? I lived it to the Max, Sonny! And I had a heck of a lot of fun doing it!

I still wouldnt alter the Giles or Clark.

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Gary Eastridge
http://www.randgfirearms.com

I am also of the opinion that they should be left as is... To each his own is a valid statement, which I agree with, but here is my opinion. If it was a generic bullseye type built by one of hundreds (thousands?) of guys that made them over the years, perhaps I might be tempted, but if they are signed or at least known to be from a well-known, now departed artisan I would keep them whole. If they no longer work for you, then sell 'em, no dishonor in that, but as Gary said the cost of good base guns is so cheap that even if you took a "loss" on the bullseye guns, I think you would still break even or come out ahead.
For example In a local shop I recently saw four bullseye guns, two were Clarks (one a longslide). Three of the four have sold over the last 5 mos, yeah thats slow but this is a small shop. All were priced between $1000 and $1250. If you only got $900, then a add $450 for a basic Springer and you would have a nice pistol. While Dave said that he did a "conversion" for something like $300, I would also be tempted, but I think that most gunsmith would want to change many more parts and not see the inherent quality in those pieces and the price would go up. Not too many smiths want to redo someone elses work, for fear of increased hassle and cost, and rightly so.
OK rant mode off.

Dave you are an Iconoclast and every board needs an intelligent one to keep us honest! So keep writing.

Thanks. I built the gun pictured and it was butchered by a well know Colorado Pistolsmith who was great when he felt like it, but very bad if he didn't. You never knew what you would get. He could make bullet molds , Grips, and was a very talented machinist. I have two barrels that he destroyed in my shop still. When this one came back, it would not run one magazine without barfing. The Nickle Plating was mine and after 20 years, a little tweak with the fine beads, it came back to like new. I tightened up the slide to frame fit, installed a new Kart barrel, did a new trigger group, test fired it, and the owner (now dead) sold it to a local friend of mine for an unknown sum to me. I had no part of the deal, other than to give them each a phone number. I shot this gun a couple of weeks ago and it is a shooter. That was it's intended purpose.
During that time period I had to do the same thing to a comp gun that I built back then. It was a .38 Super and this same smith pulled the Wilson barrel out of it and installed an old Colt barrel ands destroyed the lower lugs like he did the GC. The owner still had the Wilson comp barrel and Don Williams helped cut the barrel to a 5" and crowned it for me. I re-installed it, did a new trigger group, cleaned it up ,and watched it kick everyones butt at the Tyrone Regulator match a year ago last May.

These guns are no good if they don't perform like they were built to run. I do not view any of mine as anything but shooters. I have had guns from almost everyone famous come across my bench and none of them were perfect. None of mine are ,either. Wishing does not make it so. All I ever did on each of them was my best that day.

The LTW Gang are in business to make a living. I do not belong here with them and I am glad they put up with me. I did 1911's for love, not money. I turned down more work than most, because I wanted to do this hard work for the right kind of people.

One of my single action six guns is on the cover of SHOOT! Magazine right now. It is called the High Plains Drifter Rig. It is for a Charity Raffle for 2006 and I hope it raises some money. G.Wm. Davis made the rig, Bill Falk did the snakes, Rachel Wells did the engraving, and Lee Williams built the box. Cimarron Arms furnished the gun. I asked Mike Harvey for it and it was here the next day. It was Gordon's last ride as he was forced to retire due to blindness from his diabetes. I had about 100 hours of my time in the project, and like this bunch, who cares. We don't have to keep track, we just do it. Every dollar goes to the right place with this bunch. Everyone donates whatever it takes to do it.

My Charity Guns are collector items. One rig sold for $60,000.00 to a private collecter. I just had a small part in it, but it was a honey.

I am very glad I have the chance to do these things. I do not do them to get work. I do them because it is the right thing to do. Gun guys know that. This forum is about helping the less fortunate with skill, talent, and money. Support it and enjoy it. These guys know their stuff and do great work! I would not say that if I did not mean it. I know good stuff when I see it!

I've often wondered the same thing.

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Hard work pays off

Perfect... thanks for clearing that up.

Any gun pictures I post, are my work, unless it is really great, then It is one of my first time builders.

My opinion is that the old craftsmanship should be preserved and enjoyed. I had a Clark and a Giles back when I was competing in the sixties and they were state of the art back then. I wasn't, but Bill Blankenship was heavy competition! JMHO

I was the original tweaker on the Gold Cup Pictured. The second tweaker ruined it. If it didn't belong to my best friend, it would have stayed broke. The lower end was welded up on the Original Gun. A typical old Colt lower end cracked close to the slide stop hole. We welded it, cleaned up the weld and plated it with our Masterguard Electroless Nickle and it came out pretty nice. The fact that it was repaired bugged a couple of folks so the lower end was replaced by the other smith who did an OK job of that since the top end was deemed OK. The checkering was not as good as mine, but by most people's standards, it was very nice. Then he proceeded to ruin the lower lugs so that the gun no longer worked. I don't know why it should not be fixed to run 100%, which it does now. It took about 500 rounds to get it reliable, but that it the way I set it up, not the 1911's fault. It is a very tight set up as a Bullseye gun should be. I have pictures of that barrel and it is in my shop as I speak. In fact, I have two of them, one in .45ACP and one in .38 Super.
Now the gun is good to go again and with a new Kart barrel, it is a fun shooter, ready for any game. The money Frank got for it helped him die like a man from the cancer that took 14 months to kill him. I would do it again in a New York Minute!

Wow I think you could have probably left this last little bit out. [/b]

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Hard work pays off

Why?