ltwguns.com

I am considering buying a "pre-owned", base carry pistol (Commander size) for a project gun, and was wondering if y'all could share some opinions on the pros & cons of picking up an all-stainless version versus a stainless slide with an aluminum frame. The important things would be shootability, function, wear & tear, customization and finishes. Please impart some of your wisdom on the new guy; thanks.

Regards

Rupes

_________________
"God created all men, Sam Colt made 'em equal"

My carry 1911 is an aluminum framed Springfield Compact (officer's size frame, 4" slide) and I like the weight savings. Having said that, I don't shoot my aluminum framed guns much because I don't want to wear them out and I have many steel framed 1911s to shoot. Here's what I think of the things you asked about:

Shootability and function- equivalent function if the gun is built right, the steel framed gun is more "shootable" because the extra weight damps recoil more.

Wear and tear- no question, the steel framed gun will wear much longer. Kimber says that it's aluminum framed guns have been tested to in excess of 20,000 rounds. That's a lot of rounds, but if you shoot 3,000 rounds a year, that's only 7 years. I would not want to be getting a new custom 1911 every 7 years.

Customization- Steel has the edge here too. Every top gunsmith in the country regularly produces top notch work in steel framed guns. I'm not aware of very many who will work on aluminum framed guns. Aluminum framed guns won't take checkering as well. Checkering can be done in aluminum because it's softer and more difficult to work with. Mine are stippled which does turn out pretty well in aluminum.

Finishes- In aluminum you have three choices; anodizing of which shops which anodize gun frames are somewhat scarce, a spray on finish, and Robar NP3. My Springfield is the NP3 finish and is wearing very well after carrying it for 3 years. Anodizing wears also and the color wears first before the hard anodized layer. Spray on is easy to get done, very corrosion resistant, but will wear. NP3 is a teflon impregnated electroless nickel and is very slick, very corrosion resistant, wears pretty well, and in my mind looks pretty good for a silver finish. In steel you have many more choices of finishes, blueing, hard chrome, NP3 or other nickel, spray on, melonite, Diamondblack, etc.

If I only had one 1911 for practice and carry, I'd probably put up with the extra weight and carry and shoot a steel framed gun. You only asked about stainless vs. aluminum, and if I only had one 1911 I'd choose the stainless gun.

_________________
Ted

Ted...

Thanks, I figured that in most of those categories, steel would win. And it sounds as if the lighter carry of aluminum just can't "outweigh" the multiple advantages of steel. Thanks for the words of wisdom.

Do you have any preference of Colt v. Kimber v. Springfield?

Regards

Rupes

_________________
"God created all men, Sam Colt made 'em equal"

Aluminum frames can be hard chromed.

What is the estimate on how much a hard chrome application to an aluminum frame will enhance durability?

_________________
"God created all men, Sam Colt made 'em equal"

Finish by Bob Cogan at Accurate Plating.

[img][img]http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i90/T ... 12f0b1.jpg[/img][/img]

_________________
As a Christian, you may be the only bible someone ever reads.

Ted G...

Good looking pistol; is that hard chrome slide and Black T frame?

_________________
"God created all men, Sam Colt made 'em equal"

Some shops won't hard chrome over aluminum.

For a base gun, I think Colts and Springfields make excellent base guns and have multiples of each. I don't like any of the Kimbers with the series II firing pin safety, but if you find an older Kimber without the firing pin safety they are excellent guns in my book. The Kimbers with the firing pin safety all have "II" at the end of the model.

_________________
Ted

IIRC, aluminum frames are first plated with Electroless Nickel and then the Hard Chrome is plated over the Electroless Nickel. Electroless Nickel also provides increased corrosion protection as well as adhesion.

If I'm incorrect, please let me know.

John

I have both. For daily carry I prefer the lightweight. I carry 8-10 hours a day and the extra few ounces of a carbon or SS frame makes my aching back scream. Still hurts with the LWT but not as much. In addition I wear a suit and tie and the extra weight causes me to constantly adjust my britches ( guess I could start saggin and baggin).

Most of the guys I know dont shoot 3K a year. Most dont shoot 300 rounds a year. If you are a guy who shoots that many rounds the choice is easy.

pezzuli you are correct. But a lot of shops wont do it. Here is what Tripp has on their website.

"Hard chroming aluminum is a multistep process where most shops zincate first, electroless nickel second and hard chrome third. Some shops hard chrome aluminum directly but adhesion can be a problem. Here at Tripp Research, Inc. we do not hard chrome aluminum because we don't have confidence in the performance of either method."

_________________
Gary Eastridge
http://www.randgfirearms.com

In my opinion Gary is right on- the weight savings of a lightweight framed 1911 is worth it for a carry gun. He's also right in that most people don't shoot high round counts. I do shoot at least 3,000 rounds a year which is why I carry a LW Springfield Compact, but I practice with one of my steel framed 1911s.

_________________
Ted

As far as carry goes, I am the opposite of Gary. I prefer the shootability vs the carry. I shoot a fair amount and have went with the additional weight versus the convenience of the lighter weight. I am 55 now and my joints tell me that every day more and more.

Keep in mind, where you live i.e. evironment, your dress style, how often you carry, how often you shoot, and what you shoot in practice will often be how you shoot in a "serious social occasion." Twenty years in the military and seventeen working the streets has more often than not proved you act or react the way you train. I have personally seen folks who shoot steel in practice limp wrist an aluminum when handed one on more than one occasion until they realize what they did. You do not get a reshoot in a .............

What ever you decide what you practice with shoud be what you carry for defense.

There are multiple factors. It all boils down to going home at the end of the shift, or end of the work day.

_________________
Be safe and keep the brass flying

Terry Peters

Do your research but you get what you pay for front end or back end
http://www.pt-partners.com
@ptpartners_tx

Thanks to all of y'all for the advice and comments. This may be a relatively "stupid" question, but what is the average weight delta between a steel and aluminum frame in a commander-size 1911?

_________________
"God created all men, Sam Colt made 'em equal"

Very wise words. Reminds me of some other old words of wisdom:

One gun, One Carry

Beware the man with one gun

Of course, whenever the smiths here have a 2 for 1 sale, you can get 2 LW Commanders and have them set-up exactly alike. Then you won't have to worry about practicing alot and wearing out your carry gun.

John

Gary...

Thanks for all the advice. I know we don't know each other, but please accept condolences on your dad's passing.

Regards

Rupes

_________________
"God created all men, Sam Colt made 'em equal"

I have to agree with Terry.
I'm sorry, but I just don't see the fuss about carrying 2.5lbs.
I use to think lwt. was the way to go in my earlier days. Even with arthritis I mainly carry a Gov't or Commander, all steel.
The "shootabilty" and accuracy of a steel gun in my hands, in a life or death situation, far outweigh the benefits of carrying a lightweight in my holster.

_________________
"No person was ever honored for what he received. Honor has been the reward for what he gave."
Calvin Coolidge

After all of the sage advice, suggestions, thoughts, etc., I decided to forego the minimal weight savings and go with an all-steel pistol. Once I figure out how to post a picture on the site, I'll post the pre-modification look. After all of the "right" carry things done to it over the next few months, then we'll post the after shots.

Its a Kimber Pro Carry Series 1 all stainless with what looks like black Kimpro on the slide. Got it for $600.00...thanks again.

_________________
"God created all men, Sam Colt made 'em equal"