ltwguns.com

A couple of years ago, the AMU built a series of 1911A2's, yes A2, for a test program. I was able to watch the project and shoot several of the samples. The pistols were then sent to certain Special Operations Units for "real world" testing.

The details of this project can be found in the new Harris Publication, Tactical Weapons, that is now on the stands. I thought the members might like to see what some of the best gunsmiths in the world are doing to support the troops.

The left side in the white. Note the "United States Property" and circle "US" markings on the slide.


Right side in the white. Note the special serial number.


Two completed guns with different finishes, features, and lights


Two others. Note that sights, extractors, and frames vary. The idea was to build samples that the end users could compare and select the features they wanted.

One prototype was suppressed.


Rascally Bill Laughridge (C&S) was able to play with one when he came to visit.


The program was successful and the suppressed 1911 ran like a champ.

Thanks to the guys at the AMU for the access and friendship. They are true professionals.

Enjoy,

Rob

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We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm. George Orwell

Rob,

Thanks for sharing. Looks like some nice working pistols.

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NRA Life Member
Charter Member NRA Golden Eagles

good stuff there rob, thanks for sharing. was the long barrel in the first pic a variation, or did it get threaded?? what holsters do the guys use?-cam

Great stuff! This is exactly why I like this forum.

Great working guns. but i can see that some differ on the rear sight been in the more fordward position, is there any "special reason" for this.. or it´s just to protect them better..

Rob, thanks for sharing.

Alex.

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Alex NossaR
www.nossargunleather.com

Alex, amigon, that has to be strictly for added durability and protection of the rear sight.

May I say what an excellent idea it is .

...and what great additions any of these would be to the collector of military 1911's!

It may protect the sight better, but you'll have to put me in the "it just doesn't look right" camp.

There just has to be a better-looking way to protect the sight.

Fourth picture, the one with the combat fixed sights... Thats my favorite one from what I can see in the pics. Very nice.

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"Oderint Dum Metuant."

Here are two more pictures. One model was set up with a rail on the top of the slide for an optical sight. It is shown here with a Doctor Dot sight and can.





They also did a hi cap polymer frame prototype.



While not a custom pistol, this short barrel, full-auto, FN FAL in .308 is a great car gun. It is even better with a Surefire suppressor.



Rob

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We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm. George Orwell

I am glad this info has finally been made public. There was quite a discussion on 1911forum about these types of guns for various military units, especially the Marines, and it was getting old listening to the speculation of the misinformed. Great post, great pics, and I have one to follow in about a month. Sadly, you beat me to it, but I'll still post pics of mine once I get it in hand.

FWIW, Springfield actually came up with the idea of forward mounted adjustable sights with their operator (the one with the rollo sights and full length dustcover rail). In drop and battering tests, Bo-Mars and the like fair just as well as fixed sights in this configuration and allow for adjustability, which is especially helpful when the guns get suppressed.

Thanks for sharing.

~Jim Keeney

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"I'd rather die on my feet than keep living on my knees." - Emiliano Zapata, Mexican Revolutionary

It has been reported in the open press that certain Tier 1 CT units have been testing high cap .40s on a 1911 platform. I will reserve judgement but, if you talk to the guys who maintain the "race guns" for the top competitors, they will tell you that it takes a lot of TLC to keep them running. Magazine are also an issue.

Time will tell. Perhaps someone else has some intel on this that they can share.

Love live the 1911...... in .45 ACP.

Rob

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We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm. George Orwell

About damn time !!! The .Gov had a major case of Cranio-rectal-inversion when they switched to 9mm....

As for the STI Tactical 5.0 in 40S&W, there were some out there but most everyone has transitioned to the Glock 22.

I understand that the first group of STI guns had magazine problems. The other problem is that .40 calibers, on the 1911 platform, will not function with standard factory .40 S&W due the length of the cartridge. As such, the .40 had to be custom loaded to run reliably.

As far the Glock 22, I feel about that like I do the M-9.

'merican troops oughta be carrying a 'merican made pistol!

I love this photo of Col Hickey taken right after they captured Sadam. Cocked & locked. Good Man! By the way, the box the trooper is holding on his shoulder if full of American green backs!

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We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm. George Orwell

I speak from firsthand experience, with the rounds going downrange from my units customized 1911s it was nearly impossible to keep them reliably functioning, and they were phased out nearly as fast as they were re-introduced. We treat the G19s and Berettas like garbage and they continue to function remarkably well. I still dislike the Beretta for multitude of reasons, but I am a huge advocate of the Glock as a issued weapon. The 9mm ball round is woefully inadequate, but with the proper ammuntion the G17, 19, 23, and 22 make great weapons.

In short, the Army is lacking the people with the skills to keep the guns running properly anymore.

Jon,

I agree that 1911s will not hold up to the hard use and dirt like a Glock or XD and it does take more skill and experience to maintain a 1911. However, when most of the Tier 1 units still want a 1911 platform, that says something. What else is out there that is 96 years old and still running in almost the same original configuration.

Would I take my Pro to the sand box for an extended deployment. Maybe not. Is it the most carried pistol in my vault and the one that I am likely to go into harm's way with - Yes.


Not a safe queen!




Thanks for the post.

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We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm. George Orwell

The SA Pro is one of the best deals in 1911s IMO. I think it is better than other semi-custom offerings at greater cost (IE Nighthawm wilson, EB, Baer.)

The 1911 remains the most shootable gun to date, which is why it still thrives today. I only own one 1911 now, for sentimental value, and I don't shoot it anymore. I have a Wilson worked over by a notable that's not going anywhere.

The units you speak of, only one used the 1911 and has now transitioned to the Glock platform as armorer skill is lost from the unit.

AMU built my units 1911s, and they were extremely well built and accurate but unfortunately we can't take AMU armorers to Iraq or Afghanistan...

I'd like to see a reliable .40SW tactical 1911 with at least 15 rounds, an external extractor that functions well, has a railed frame, and an goon such as myself can swap parts out. Maybe if I win the lottery...

It is still popular for 2 reasons
1- .45acp cartridge
2- 1911 platform is still the fastest most accurate way of deliverying the .45acp cartridge

and in the civilian market add
3- concealable, still one of the thinnest and easiest to conceal fullsize autos that delivers the .45acp cartridge

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Jake Martens
Indianapolis, IN
https://www.facebook.com/USPSAIndiana

How did the they get caspian frames with 3 slots? I've only been able to find the standard ones with only 1 slot.

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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

This is SPARTA!!!!!!

I was out all week and thought I had successfully posted from out of town, but I see it didn't stick. It was something along the lines of, "Oh, THAT Rob Garrett". I knew the name was familiar but didn't get it until I read the ref to Harris Publications (I was wondering, who IS this guy and how does he get access to this cool stuff?!).

This is a fascinating thread Rob, thanks for sharin' with us!

A few more for the Nedster!

Here's a closeup of the Bo Mar rear sight on one of the test pistols. Note the tritium "bar" insert.

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We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm. George Orwell

I have often wondered why no one added an optic rail and can to a 1911 rail gun for military or LE use; sort of IPSC meets reality. Perhaps it's time for some work on my old full length rail SA Operator.

Geraldo,

A couple of issues come up. Relability, durability, weight and bulk are the concerns with using optical sights for duty/military use. Each item added to the basic pistol can affect relability.

Remember when Glock first came out with the new series of pistols with the rails. They would not run reliably with a Surefire light attached because the weight of the light kept the frame from flexing, thus binding the slide.

I'm not sure that there is a small optical sight that is durable enough to withstand harsh conditions. Also the sight has to allow for co-indexing with iron sights in case the electronics fail. This requires larger iron sights. Holsters are also an issue.

Most of these issues are not present with unlimited ISPC guns.

Maybe one day but I don't think we are there yet. Long guns are another issue and I think everyone will agree that Aimpoints or EoTechs are the way to go as long as you have iron back-up sights.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Rob

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We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm. George Orwell

I really don't see a need for an optic sight on a combat pistol. A combat pistol is a close quarters style of weapon that needs to be able to deploy quickly, optics are not needed for this.

Looking at these begs the question for me, really does the arm forces need a custom built pistol?
I can see small groups of special ops wanting this, but for a basic side arm do we really think that a for a basic side arm do we need a custom style pistol?

I think that what is needed is a basic 1911 style .45acp pistol with visible sights, decent trigger and set up to run in harsh conditions (loose) is what is needed. Kinda of history repeats itself

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Jake Martens
Indianapolis, IN
https://www.facebook.com/USPSAIndiana

Jake,

These were built as proof of concept models for specific SOCOM units and were never intended for the "big Army."

Rob

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We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm. George Orwell

Rob,
Sorry I didn't really put what I meant, I understand that these were intended for special units with specific needs and request.
But I think that some people see this and the magazine articles and assume that the military is considering building custom 1911's with caspain slides and frames as the regular side arm, when that just isn't going to be happening.
It is pretty cool to see these pictures though

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Jake Martens
Indianapolis, IN
https://www.facebook.com/USPSAIndiana

Jake,

No problem or offense taken. I do find it interesting that the USMC is increasing the number of 1911's in their inventory to support specific units.

Within the Army, the double stack .40 is being tested by certain units with mixed success.

Thanks for the post.

Regards,

Rob

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We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm. George Orwell

Rob,

My thinking was actually more LE than military. For instance, we had MP5s with lights (no optics), and 30 rounds of 9mm. At close quarters, or in tight spaces, and pistol with 20 or so rounds of 9mm or .40 would work just as well.

As for optics on pistols, no we probably don't need them, but that 1911 with the can and Doctor has a high cool factor.

While not directly related to this post, this is some of the AMU troops outside Baghdad during a MTT two years ago. Note the troop in the center is carrying a short barrel Remington 870 MCS shotgun. He road tested one of the prototypes prior to the MCS going into full production.

As they say, there is strong and then there's ARMY STRONG!!!!

Thanks Guys,

Rob

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We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm. George Orwell

great reference post, even better eye candy

thanks