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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:12 pm 
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I know everyone's styles are different. I ran a search and couldn't find what I'm looking for. What do you guys prefer to do a build on...an existing gun or something like Caspian parts? Let's say a full-size .45 1911 set up for hard use. Stainless or HC. Magwell only if the frame is cut down to avoid extra length. How about something really exciting like a welded magwell and a bobtail? Just thinking of a future project and there's no better place than here for info. Thanks!
Tracy

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:29 pm 
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Everybody's got their own particular druthers, Tracy. Personally, I tend to like doing full house builds starting with Baer frames & slides.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:37 pm 
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c.t. just to clarify a little bit , by that statement dont you mean oversize nm brand new slide frame? (similiar to a caspian build)?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:48 pm 
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Baer frames & slides. New. Oversize. Carbon steel or stainless. Forged.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:19 pm 
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Thanks Mr. Brian for the start. I love the way you autograph your work. What are the chances of getting an unmarked frame/slide to start with? I just hate to see thousands of dollars going into a full-custom where the first thing people see is an overseas rollmark!

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:32 pm 
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Location: northern california
http://www.lesbaer.com/parts.html

Here you go.

Bryan


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:21 pm 
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I appreciate that link Bryan, but to be honest, I don't want Baer's rollmark on my pistol. I've owned one of his guns before, and when I met him at the SHOT Show a couple of years ago to ask him about my problems, he was an a**hole.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:27 pm 
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Location: northern california
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I appreciate that link Bryan, but to be honest, I don't want Baer's rollmark on my pistol. I've owned one of his guns before, and when I met him at the SHOT Show a couple of years ago to ask him about my problems, he was an a**hole.
By rollmark do you mean on the slide or mfg mark with serial # on frame. Slide should be avail without markings on sides. I don't think you can get away from how frame is marked.

Bryan


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:47 pm 
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I know serial numbers are required, I just don't want the name on the frame. Sure would be nice if we could get a "CT Brian Serial #***" or a "Rogers Precision Serial #*** et al. I've seen so many beautiful customs built with the obscene "made in Brazil" right out front.

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Last edited by AZ Husker on Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:29 pm 
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anyone who is familiar with filling out an ffl form knows that you can buy a mfg licence, and this allows caspian , or whoever, the ability to put your roll mark on the frame. I build a couple a year for a local mfg who has caspian do this for him.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:48 pm 
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Thanks guys...now how about the rest of you? What base gun or build?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:54 pm 
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Ponies are nice Tracy, real nice. So are SF, Caspian, and yes, also Baers. I've known Les for 10+ and he's always been real friendly to me.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:19 am 
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Athame...Nice website, I've never been there. Got you bookmarked! Where is Alaska anyways...somewhere around North Datkota?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:20 am 
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The new frames from Wilson Combat are just incredible. All the exterior shapes are machined by high-speed CNC. For example the frontstrap / trigger guard / underside of the dust cover wouldnormally be machined with one cutter having a large radius on it. On the W/C frames it's all done with something like a 3/16 carbide ball end mill in little tiny precision steps. Possible downside,they are made for the proprietary W/C ejector which anchors to the frame by a single large lug as opposed to the traditional two posts, also, some smiths might not like the way the trigger guard is undercut. In my case it does preclude me from doing this area the way I usually do and some other guys have found it gets in the way of their style too, but there is nothing "bad" about it other than that; actually it is a clever and appealing way to do it.

You can kinda see this trigger guard undercut on this 19mm:
http://www.louderthanwords.us/forum/vie ... f=6&t=5654


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:26 am 
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Why not get a Rock River? It looks virtually like a Baer, cost's a couple of bucks less and you can get it plain or with checkering if you like. Quality is very good. It does seem like there are a lot more choices now. Briley and STI are also offering frames and slides for builds, but I haven't laid hands on them. Neds right about the Wilson. Nice frame, but you're going to get one set up for his pro-prietary parts, such as his beavertail as well. I think most of us would rather start out with a standard Colt/GI spec gun or frame and slide set and then fit the parts we want. Best,

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:29 am 
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Rock Rivers=good, I agree. They are under-recognized for their quality, bare frames and complete guns.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:53 am 
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Quote:
Why not get a Rock River? It looks virtually like a Baer, cost's a couple of bucks less and you can get it plain or with checkering if you like. Quality is very good. It does seem like there are a lot more choices now. Briley and STI are also offering frames and slides for builds, but I haven't laid hands on them. Neds right about the Wilson. Nice frame, but you're going to get one set up for his pro-prietary parts, such as his beavertail as well. I think most of us would rather start out with a standard Colt/GI spec gun or frame and slide set and then fit the parts we want. Best,
I read on this very forum that RRA and LB both get their frames and slides from LMT (also in Illinois). I don't remember who posted it, but it would explain why they look the same..


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:00 pm 
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You can kinda see this trigger guard undercut on this 19mm:
http://www.louderthanwords.us/forum/vie ... f=6&t=5654
Hey Nedly.....What the heck kinda deck-gonne are you building now?? By my estimates that thing in 19mm would be around a .75-.80 Calibre...is this yer "Boarding Pistol" coming to life??? :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 2:18 pm 
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Oops.... 19mm..... Jeez I've misspelled a number! :oops:


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:47 pm 
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If retro-building a Pony or other assembled 1911 isn't your goal--and you don't want to take the caspian/wilson/Baer route, there's still a few other options.

The key points are oversized and forged. Cast offer too many issues-- especially those frames made from two seperate castings and then brazed together such as Olympic arms or Essex/Sarco frames.

Numrich was offering National match frames for a while at a decent price-- something like 169 bucks if I heard correctly. However, I would call since their website (http://www.e-gunparts.com) hasn't been updated lately and they're still only listing the Tecnema used frames (listed as out of stock/back ordered)

Otherwise how about going with a "short block," a prefitted frame, slide, and barrel-- several companies offer them, the ones that immediately come to mind are Caspian, Fusion, and STI/SVI.
Bob Serva's been doing wonders for Fusion-- his shortblock kits are reasonably priced, and our friend Longslide on 1911.org has done several custom builds with Serva and sings praise for both the quality of the parts and Bob's abilities as a smith and salesman. Hell, look what he did for Dan Wesson.
I cannot recall who was making STI/SVI's single stack frames, however, a friend and I had no issues building one of their 2011 prefit kits.

RRA makes a darn good pistol-- I am still kicking myself for not getting one of their tacticals when they were first introduced several years back. They were something like 750 a pop, your choice of front strap treatment and other anemities at no extra cost, and I went with a Pro Carry II.

Only foriegn made hunk of metal I would touch would be something by Boy Tolentino-- It's Phillipino and imported by Ivan and Rock Island, but I'd trust Tolentino's work-- IMHO he's the Chow of the Phillipines.
And before folks go to maulling me with gym socks fulla reject slides, remember that STI/SVI got a foothold from Phillipino parts production.

The all important question is what're you looking for exactly in terms of the ergonomics, handling, and use.
Are we talking a discreet carry PDW, truck'n'bump beater, BBQ show piece, or gaming blaster--that'll help in terms of helping you pick frame, barreling, and who to have assemble it.
If we're talking a 10mm hunter-- a fusion longslide would be your best bet, or if it's something for IDPA or steel plates, .38 super or .45 using a Caspian "Race ready" might help save a smith having to weld up a magwell or do a msh curve blend.
More specifically-- would you want a ramped barrel such as a Nowlin or a high sweep gripsafety with or without the memory bump/swell.
That's just my amateur two-bits, but figuring out those factors will save in the long run--once we know where and how the barrel is integrated with the design, and where the gun fits into your hand for your desired intent, the rest falls into place: from sights to what kind of guide rod and even firing pin stop.

How do you want it to look and how do you want it to shoot?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:56 pm 
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[/quote]
I read on this very forum that RRA and LB both get their frames and slides from LMT (also in Illinois). I don't remember who posted it, but it would explain why they look the same..[/quote]

The last I heard was that Baer frames were made by Baer. Not sure of the origins of the RRA product.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:43 pm 
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I think that's old info that was not confirmed in the first place... which is not to say no way was/is it true. Personally I don't know and I just don't think the people that really know are talking. I'm pretty sure though it's not true now. Anyway I gave up a long time ago trying to track this kind of thing down because just when you think you know something a company changes suppliers.

I will say this, both outfits do make really good frames. I did a build on one this summer. The customer supplied it but I spec'd it out with RRA so that it did not go through final prep, in other words it was right off the machines. That gave me a little more leeway on a few things.

Here's that RRA project:
http://www.louderthanwords.us/forum/vie ... f=6&t=5096


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:45 am 
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I believe you will find that Baer manufactures his own frame/slides.

I believe you will also find Caspian frames are not forged.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:53 am 
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Quote:
I read on this very forum that RRA and LB both get their frames and slides from LMT (also in Illinois). I don't remember who posted it, but it would explain why they look the same..

Les Baer has his own machine shop that makes his frames and slides. They are in the US, and I believe I was told by Baer at the last Vegas Shot Show that the machine shop is in Pennsylvania. Rock River's frames are also in the US, but out on the east coast...at the same place the AR recievers are made.

When Baer split from Springfield Armory with the owners of RRA, they employed Lewis Machine and Tool to make their frames and slides. By the time the owners of RRA split from Baer, Baer was already having his frames and slides made from his current shop, and Rock River initially had Lewis Machine and Tool make theirs. After a falling out with LMT, Rock River moved their fames and slides to the east coast with their AR recievers.

Having worked for 2 out of the three previously mentioned, I can assure you the information is solid.

Take care,
Bob


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:55 am 
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Quote:
Quote:
I read on this very forum that RRA and LB both get their frames and slides from LMT (also in Illinois). I don't remember who posted it, but it would explain why they look the same..

Les Baer has his own machine shop that makes his frames and slides. They are in the US, and I believe I was told by Baer at the last Vegas Shot Show that the machine shop is in Pennsylvania. Rock River's frames are also in the US, but out on the east coast...at the same place the AR recievers are made.

When Baer split from Springfield Armory with the owners of RRA, they employed Lewis Machine and Tool to make their frames and slides. By the time the owners of RRA split from Baer, Baer was already having his frames and slides made from his current shop, and Rock River initially had Lewis Machine and Tool make theirs. After a falling out with LMT, Rock River moved their fames and slides to the east coast with their AR recievers.

Having worked for 2 out of the three previously mentioned, I can assure you the information is solid.

Take care,
Bob
Thanks for the clearing up! The post I mentioned was only a short anecdote, so I couldn't exactly speak on authority based on that.


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