ltwguns.com

Just curious

Just my two cents, but sistemas are on the cheap surplus market for a reason. Possible? Sure. Practical, and with a worthy outcome? Not in my experience. You'll spend far more than the price differential of a Colt bringing a sistema anywhere near the Colt's potential.

I haven't yet delivered a custom built on a Colt or Springfield and had the customer say "Gee it's nice, but I wish I would have had it built on a sistema!"

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Heirloom Precision, LLC.
480-804-1911

Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing.

TR

The few of these I've seen are kinda cool in a way for what they are. If asked though, I'd find every excuse not to do a custom on one. Now if a guy wanted to put one back to Argentine-factory-new condition I'd call that a worthy endeavor. Check it out, tune it up a little, and refinish to have as an example of a foreign version of our little pet

I am not a gunsmith, but I am a cheap bastard . Pay $400+ for a Springfield WWII and you will be much better off if you are going to have a custom built gun. They are already a good product to begin with, and at the market price are a heck of a bargain.
Lenny

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Show 'em where you live....

Sistemas seem to be pretty popular as "training" guns for do-it-yourself home gun chopping. But most professional gunsmiths won't be too eager to do custom work on anything cheaper than a Springfield Armory GI Milspec.

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Sean Smith
"Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that?" -Jack Burton, Big Trouble in Little China

As we speak (or type), I am having a brace of Systema pistols "cleaned up". I am not going "full-blown" on them, just having them made reliable and doing sights. No matter what you spend on them, as Ted pointed out, they are still "just Systemas" and that is how the marketplace will perceive them. If all factors are equal, I would follow the advice given above and start with another base gun for just about the same money.
The situation that leads me to my Systema project is based upon the fact that they are C & R items and quirks in the state laws in Missouri make them more attractive for me for their ease if purchasing and selling.
Through the years, I have been told that the steel in them has not been hardened to modern standards (as most are over 70 years old), so extensive custom work or accurizing would be less than productive over time. They are neat old pieces, but within certain boundaries. I really like them for what they are but they will never replace my "modern" 1911s.
Best to all,
Jeffro

Why, in the name of all that is holy, would anyone even want to?

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CT Brian Custom
'Blending Art With Firepower'

Maybe he wants it to go with his fullhouse Radom 9 mm or retro Nambu.

This is my Ballester-Molina that has some work done on it. Contrary to what others have said I like the pistol and it will shoot with most $500 1911s on the market. Mine has a Series 70 barrel, match bushing, Novak Sights, and Hakan grips. When I bought mine for $200 my intent was for a car/truck gun but it's accurracy was terrible. I figure mine is one of a kind and I love to shoot it. Why? Just to see the look on peoples faces when this oddity shoots with more expensive handguns. Regards, Richard

Wait until you see Jeffro's pearl grips on his Sistema's, nestled comfy in the ostrich double
rig and you will want a pair of your own!

Heya Jeffro! How's the family?

As other gentlemen have said, it can be done.

Is it a good investment, or at least money well spent? Not really, for the simple fact that so many of the ones currently on the market are pretty clapped out.

Many have been refinished at least once, rollmarks buffed away, etc. Most everything but the slide and frame would have to be replaced for best performance, and even then it would look rather tired.

But with that in mind, if you desire a shooter and want to improve the gun a bit, there are some things you can do and a few bucks spent in some strategic areas make sense.

In fact, I am right in the middle of tweaking one of mine. It's already been halfheartedly customized a bit in the past by someone. I am going to spend no more than $100 or so on it, and use it as a practice gun for some of the reconditioning tricks that I wouldn't bother using on a new base gun.

Here's the changes I'm making:

1) Tighten bushing to slide fit by flaring bushing skirt
2) Crown barrel
3) Replace spur hammer with Colt spur hammer, and bob it
4) Fit Wilson grip safety (frame has already been radiused)
5) Brown match sear
6) Cut slide for Novaks
7) Stipple frontstrap
8 ) Replace trigger with solid medium Grieder
9) Dehorn
10) Replace factory MSH with Colt flat nylon part
11) New springs
12) Abrasive blast the polymer coating off, and reblue

That will give me a nice shooter without doing anything radically expensive and shouldn't be too much work to put into the gun.

In the end, the charm of the Sistema lies in what it is, not what it could be.

For a serious custom build, I would send nothing less than a new Colt or minty series 70/80. It doesn't make sense -- at least to me -- to have one of these fellows waste their talents on anything less.

All is going well. Thank you for asking. I hope all is going well for you and yours. Always good to hear from you.

I am somewhat puzzled by some of the responses about the Systemas. As to why one might choose to clean one up a bit? Just because. If everyone liked exactly the same thing, there wouldn't be any custom gunsmiths!!!
Best to all,
Jeffro

Just didn't know anything about them and saw one for the first time the other day.....I had Alex Hamilton build me up a "retro type" 1911 from a Norinco 1911 that I picked up for less than $300. I've heard a lot of trash talk on the Norinco. I had Alex removed all the crappy Noinco markings, and had a few other things done, and I have a very good and reliable forged 1911 now which I carry all the time. Like I said I was just curious about he Sistema and started my further inquiry/research here....... The Sistema option is now off the table but here is a pic of my Norinco built by Alex for ya'll

Nicely done

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Show 'em where you live....

I really dont see much savings by using the Sistema. New SA GI Mil specs are around $400 so you save $100-$150 by going with a "bargain gun" ????

A quick glance at this forum should answer the question of suitability.
Yost- no, Christiansen-rather not, Brian-why would you want to.

If I were on a budget I would stick with a SA loaded. Better to drive a stock Chevy than a souped up Hyundai.

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Gary Eastridge
http://www.randgfirearms.com

I have several 1911's that don't need anything- Baer; Colt; & SA. But since I also had a fairly nice Sistema that I liked, but needed some things I decided to have some changes made as follows: Cmdr. spur hammer; Ed Brown BT GS; Ed Brown barrel/bushing; King's Hardball fixed sights; reblue. Gunsmoke in Denver did the work and I now have a more functional/accurate working pistol that looks pretty good too.

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NRA Endowment Life member

OK, I am as guilty as anybody about throwing my money around on guns! But I think that sinking a lot of money into a Sistema is like putting a $1000 set of tires on a $750 beater! Yes, you have nice tires on your beater but so what. You have a shaky vehicle with the car example and with the Sistema you still have a shaky "vehicle" from the standpoint of value, heat treating, etc.

If you have a Sistema that your heart loves, clean it up, lube it and shoot it like it is. If you want to spend money, buy a Springfield or find a beater "home custom/screw up" gun of a decent make and rehabilitate that!

I see that all the time here, expensive 20s w/spinners on a ''hooptie''. My favorite though has to be a customized Denali/Escalade parked in front of a 70s models single wide.

Glad to someone else posting from Memphis.

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''ya can't argue logic with ignorance.''

Before anyone goes too far against the Systemas, maybe Steve Bailey could post a snapshot of a few nice looking Systemas that have just been "cleaned up" a bit by him!!!!!!!!!!

Best to all,
Jeffro

Sorry, but he's been forbidden to post pics of the sistemas Might give somebody ideas.

They came out beautiful though. Only two to three times the amount of work it would have taken to do the exact same thing to a Colt.

They'll be collectible in a way though, cause they'll definitely be the last ones we do.

_________________
Heirloom Precision, LLC.
480-804-1911

Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing.

TR

Ted,
Seriously, I apologize if I caused any problems with them. Needless to say, I would never intentionally cause you folks any problems or hardshiip. I promise the next firearms you get from me will be more "conventional" and better base guns. That is of course assuming that you and Steve will still talk to me after sending the Systemas!
I do appreciate your courtesy and I give you my word that I will not send you anymore like the Systemas........... ONLY Colts or Springfields from here on out. I really would never intentionally take advantage of your good graces.
Best regards,
Jeffro (Jeff)

Absolutely no apology necessary. They weren't a problem, Jeff - just a challenge

One of those jobs that makes me glad Steve's learned so much so quickly working on the "nice" stuff. Every now and then one comes along to remind us we don't know it all, haven't seen everything, and the only easy project is the one that shipped out yesterday. This is when you throw up your hands and say "Jeez! Why didn't he just send a Colt?!?"

In spite of the challenges presented, Steve did these up very nicely. It was a learning experience for him, which in a sick way I think he rather enjoyed

In the end, the results are far more than I ever expected, and I'm sure you'll be very pleased.

Regarding my "good graces".... Lori says I don't have any. Just "diminished vulgarity". I guess if she's willing to settle for that I'm pretty lucky

_________________
Heirloom Precision, LLC.
480-804-1911

Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing.

TR

Like I said before, you are always the gentleman.........

Jeffro

This is my Sistema Colt 1927. I bought it like my Ballester-Molina with the thought of using it as a car/carry gun. When I tried the 1927 it was inaccurate as hell. I took it to Marianne Carniack for help. It got a Series 80 barrel and match bushing, Novak sights, Chip Mc Cormick (trigger, sear, and extended grip safety), plus Farrar grips. It makes a dandy car/carry gun. I guess plain jane guns suit my tastes. Regards, Richard

I have a beautiful Sistema. You guys make me want to go home and take some pictures to prove it.

Richard,
For whatever reason, I cannot get the picture you posted. I don't know if it is a problem on your end, my end, or somewhere inbetween. Would love to see it, so repost if you would. I appreciate it.

Best,
Jeffro

Bosshoff,
You surely don't have to "prove it", but I would enjoy seeing pics of your Systema. I like them!!

Best to all,
Jeffro

When I received my Sistema, it was in sorry shape. It had been dropped on its left side, and had a good sized mark along the D.G.F.M.(F.M.A.P.) rollmarks. The grips were dry and filthy with crud. The barrell link pin opening was egged out, and the pin was missing. The action was not smooth, but the bore was nice, and within specs. I had a larger link pin installed, had the barrell smoothed a bit to feed hollow points, smoothed the action by cycling with a "slurry"of CLP and JB Bore paste, and gave it a go. The weapon functioned flawlessly, and fed everything. I then took my ugly duckling to my local smith to have re-blued. (When I got the weapon, the blueing was about 30%.) Unbenounst to me, my smith took a draw file, and brought down the side of the slide to eliminate the good sized compression mark. He did this without wiping off the rollmarks. He also smoothed the crokked import markings under the trigger guard, which were not even straight. In the process of refinishing the weapon, the trigger and safety lost some of the crap metal that was under the finish. The result is they show some pock marks, or pitting. I will probably replace them in the future, but this is low priorority. I think I have a Norinco trigger currently in use? Presently, I have a set of Colt walnut grips with gold medallions installed. I will try to find some before and after pics to post. The blueing turned out deep and black. Yeah I could have bought a Colt (which I have five) but this was fun to learn with.