ltwguns.com

Most of my guns have had barrels from Bar-Sto installed, though I have noticed a that you guys use a lot of Kart barrels. With modern CNC machining, I don't imagine that there's too much difference between the top handgun barrel makers, but I want to get the opinion of the folks here...

I also have a P-14 with a Nowlin barrel, which shoots great...though the length of the Nowlins is a little longer, which can expose the crown to damage in some holsters.

Which barrel do you think is best?...and why?

I had just assumed I'd stick with Bar-Sto for my next project, but was now considering giving Kart a try.

Thanks for your feedback!!!

I'm not a buuilder, just an owner and shooter. I have barsto in my full-house 1911 .45, have seen and extensively shot Kart barrels in another 1911 (I have two 1911s with Karts coming from Yo-Bo as we speak), and had one Kimber with a stock Kimber "match" barrel.

To be honest, I don't think I could tell any difference from an accuracy stand point. But, then again, my Kimber was exceptionally accuracte fora completely stock pistol.

Having said that, I'm inclined to go with Kart from now on. First, they are MUCH less expensive than the Barsto. I understand they require less work to properly fit. And most importantly my smiths of choice Ted at Yo-Bo and Tim Brian say they are the one to use.

JeffVN

So far from the other discussions, there isn't much difference in performance between the two if fitted properly. The benefits of Kart barrels are that they are more readily available than Barsto, cost less, and are made with chromoly which has a slightly higher rockwell hardness than stainless steel. The benefits of Barsto is that it's stainless steel so less likely to rust than a Kart would. As for length of the barrel at the muzzle, it all depends on who's installing the barrel. The barrel can always be recrowned and fluted to protect the rifling.

I've never used a Kart barrell before but have heard that the bore finish was very smooth, so less fouling and easier to clean. I have only used the stock Colt barrel, Heinie and Barsto. All I can say is, they all foul up and need some carressing *and elbow grease* to get them spiffy clean.

Check out this posting for additional info.

http://www.louderthanwords.us/forum/vie ... php?t=1198

For me, it's not so much a question of which barrel is best. There are a lot of great barrels, and technology advances will make even more available.

The question is (at least for me) which is the best barrel company? There are at least two barrel companies that I won't deal with anymore, on any level. I'll accept their barrels from customers if they're willig to deal with uncaring attitudes, poor communication, unprofessional dealings, and baseless long delivery times. I can't abide bad behavior in a professional relationship - I'll just move on and spend my money elsewhere.

Listening, guys? That sound is your cash register not ringing.

If someone orders something from me, I send it out and get paid for it. If I can't send it right out, I'll say so, and I don't accept the payment until I can deliver. The reason the barrel making industry (I should clarify - the 1911 barrel making industry )gets away with poor treatment of customers is because we let them.

Kart is responsive, timely, and professional in their dealings. They also will honestly represent any delay they foresee, and get busy fixing any problem in their delivery chain. They get the vast bulk of my barrel business. They also make a fantastic product, which is nice

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Heirloom Precision, LLC.
480-804-1911

Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing.

TR

Well, poor customer service and delivery time would be a major factor in it. The bottom line is that they're all good as long as they were fitted correctly. That comes down to the gunsmith's personal preference, expertise and what he can get for you.

Then again, sometimes you just buy for the name, hence Colt is still flourishing in the custom world with all the aftermarket frames and slides out there.

I'm on the Kart bandwagon too, for the same reasons-- they are always available, reasonably priced, and as accurate as any in my experience. Actually I believe all or almost all aftermarket barrels are good, and for some reason, all or almost all factory barrels are not. Don't know why, but even with a weldup and great fit, I could never get a Colt barrel to shoot well. Not that I would even try these days, with the barrels that are available. I like Wilson barrels too, again for the same reasons, plus they are stainless.

Sometimes I have to go elsewhere to get a certain style that can't be had from Wilson or Kart.

I just examined a Kart Easy-Fit for the first time and my impression is that it should be a great system, and not just for the do-it-yerselfer. I don't see any downside to it sofar.

I’ll add to what Ted posted. My last build had a BarSto barrel. It was a 12 week delivery time after I was quoted 4 weeks.

I have BarSto and Kart barrels on at least two 1911s each. As far as quality I prefer Kart. They are equally, if not more, accurate and clean much easier. They are also less expensive. If you need stainless look at the Les Baer barrels. It is my understanding that they are rifled by Kart.

Good luck,

Mike

Hmmmm, a stainless Kart barrel. Now that's an interesting combination. Must research more on that information.

From an article in the January, 2003 Guns Magazine:

"The barrel and how it is fitted is the heart and soul of any accurate Govt. Model pistol. Baer's barrels are made by Kart -- although they're marked Baer -- and are beautifully made. During my gun-smithing days it took a long time to fit a barrel due to the differences in dimensions from one part to another.

Starting with beautifully uniform components, barrel fitting at the Les Baer shop goes much faster... although the task is no less demanding.

"Best On The Market"

Kart makes these barrels to Baer's specification, but uses his own proprietary rifling design. "I've been buying barrels from Kart since 1976," said Baer, "and he makes the best pistol barrel on the market."


Interesting food for thought.

I'll toss my two pennys in the pot.

As has aleady been pointed out here, it's the fit that makes a match barrel shoot.

Kart makes a fabulous barrel. BarSto makes a fabulous barrel.

They are both my favorite.

Sometimes a BarSto is a bit more difficult to fit, but I tend to use them most of the time. You do have to make your orders well in advance of anticipated need, but I order 20-30 at a time so that doesn't represent a problem for me. A BarSto is very accurate. When Irv Stone II was still around, he taught me a lot about fitting his barrels, so that's probably the biggest reason I use them so much - I've used them for so long that I'm pretty comfortable with them. True they're a bit more expensive, but the name is well known and has been associated with quality for quite a few years.

That said, Kart barrels are the ones I use when building Bullseye guns. I find that Kart barrels are just a shade more accurate than BarSto when using certain loads that are associated with Bullseye shooting.

Which is the better barrel? Both of them. Guess I wasn't much help after all.......

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CT Brian Custom
'Blending Art With Firepower'

Bar stock stainless vs forged chrome-moly........it's a no-brainer to me.

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http://www.rogersprecision.com

I just got a hold of a Schuemann Classic barrel for one of my guns. They seem to be very popular in the practical shooting world. From outward appearances it is a very nice looking barrel. I hope to have it fit here in the next coule of weeks. It is a little to late to change but have you guys had good or bad experiences with Wil's standard bushing barrels?

I use the Schuemann Classic (standard & AET, especially) barrels a lot in my work and like them very much. The surface finish is indeed excellent. Properly installed they are very accurate with enhanced corrosion and abrasion resistance compared to chromeoly barrels.

I like Schuemann's directions for barrel cleaning. He doesn't recommend cleaning them at all. His website gives several detailed examples of the damage done to barrels by the cleaning process. He sums it up by saying," My Personal Practice has become to never clean the bore of my barrels. I do use a brass rod to scrape the deposits out of the chamber. But, I've learned to leave the bore alone and it very slowly becomes shinier and cleaner all by itself. Years ago I occasionally scrubbed the bore with a brass bore brush. But, doing so always seemed to cause the bore to revert to a dirtier look with more shooting, so I eventually stopped ever putting anything down the bore except bullets...

Good luck,

Wil"http://www.schuemann.com/

I didn't see where Les Baer uses stainless barrels, just stainless bushings is my understanding. But of course I could be mistaken. Their web site says hammer forged 4350 steel. I don't know anything about steel....is that stainless or not?

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Lynnie, NRA Life Member

Not - it's the proverbial chrome moly - see e.g. the thread stainless versus ordinance steels on The Firing Line or similar discussions lots of other places. For ultimate accuracy discussed at an understandable level see Gail McMillan on the Highroad and elsewhere.

For my money I'll go with Layne Simpson's remark that it takes a little more care to make a really good barrel from stainless so if price is a factor settle for carbon if price is not an issue capitalism works and either can be made into a fine barrel.

Quoting myself quoting Jim Carmichael on this subject as posted on another board - if I really needed the best barrrel I'd have 10 shipped to my maker and keep the very best of 10 - Mr. Carmichael said when it was Uncle's money that was the way the AMU went; when it was Mr. Carmichael's money it was best of 3. Stanley Marcus on a different subject said he could handpick the best of this year's run - if the customer could wait Mr. Marcus would handpick the best across several years. There's always room for improvement but I think the differences in barrels however real get lost in the statistical noise after a certain level.

All,

It took me a few days to get back to this post and as usual, there is a ton of well thought out information in reply to my question.

As suspected, there's no clear "winner" but you guys brought out a lot of interesting points to think about.

I appreciate the advice!!!