ltwguns.com

I've got a chance to pick one up at a great deal. Anyone have any experience with them? Thanks.

I do. I own two and they're fantastic pistols. I've owned a few full-on customs and had the opportunity to shoot several more, and the Pros are just as reliable and accurate as the custom guns. They have the same nice feel and fit of a custom, but yes, they do lack that nice bit of hand touch/hand finishing that you'll find on a fine one-off custom.

The SA Pros are actually hand-built, one at a time but you can tell they're built to a bit of a price point when it comes to those not-so-obvious finishing touches.

Are they worth 2 grand? I suppose that's in the eye of the beholder, but I definitely like them better than any of the "factory customs" by Baer, Wilson etc that I've used. If you can get a deal on one, and it doesn't look abused, I'd jump on it.

Thanks for the info.

I saw my first one in a shop just this week. They were asking $2500 which is I believe retail price. Its a really nice pistol but should be around $2000 at most in my opinion. I think your paying the xtra $500 because the FBI uses it. If I found one for $2000 I would probably go for it.

I think you can generally get them for around $2100-2200 from a couple of the online dealers.

I love my Professional model handgun. I have had other "hi end" 1911's such as Wilson protectors, Wilson classics, Wilson CQB's and I have had other middle of the road 1911's in the 1,000 range to include the Springfield TRP Tactical, and Kimbers Gold match etc.... But the one and only 1911 I currently own is a Springfield Professional. Actually to be honest I have TWO of them. One is a non rail version and the other is a rail version which I am TYRING TO SELL. It is new and unfired, in fact it can be seen at the follwing address: http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=286534

So, for those of you guys that enjoy a custom pistol of this type at this price give me a shout. It is as new as they come.

My non rail version is a VERY accurate pistol and it runs like a swiss watch. I have no reason to believe the rail version will be any different. These guns have a barrel lock up as if it came from wells fargo bank vault. The slide to frame fit is equally as firm, yet, when you cycle the slide it feels as though it is on ball bearings. I just love my Professional. As it says in the ad the only reason I am letting the rail version go is because my SV gun will be coming in sometime in December '04/January '05.
As you can see by my username at Glock talk, I was (and still am) a Wilson fan, but my allegiance is now firmly in the Springfield Professional camp. They really are that nice of a pistol.

_________________
Regards,
Steven
NRA certified instructor

I myself own a pro also and find it to be my most favorite 1911.

What do the custom builders here at LTW opinions on this pistol? Do you guys consider it to be a "custom" pistol?

_________________
Guns are no more responsible for killing people than the spoon is
responsible for making Rosie O'Donnell fat.
Gary Paul Johnston, 1999

I am very interested also to what the LTW opinion on this situation is....

While not one of the professional gunsmiths, I don't think you can call it custom since you really don't get options on what you "order." Not to take away from the quality of the Professional, or the TRP line. They are great guns, just not custom.

Bdavis

Why is it not considered a "Custom?" I have spoken to Dave Williams and Jason Chambless at Springfield Custom ( both APG) and they told me the process of how a Pro model is built; all parts are hand fitted from oversized parts including the frame and slide. I understand that the folks here at LTW build works of art that are "one of a kind," but I fail to see why the Pro models are not considered a custom 1911.

Regardless, I like the pro model and consider it to be a custom pistol. Maybe my opinion will change once I get a 1911 from one of the folks here at LTW.

_________________
Guns are no more responsible for killing people than the spoon is
responsible for making Rosie O'Donnell fat.
Gary Paul Johnston, 1999

Barry,

I don't know what to tell you. I have a Trophy Match, a TRP Operator and a Pro, as well as a two Heinie guns and one from Jonny Lim. They all work great, they all look great, but I just don't consider the Trophy Match, and the TRP as "custom" even though they get "touched" in the Custom Shop. I'll agree that the Pro is different and I really like Dave and the people at the Custom Shop, I guess I just view it different that the single man shops that I have bought guns from. Don't mean to diminish the Pro, I love mine. I guess I sort of view like I would a Les Baer or Wilson. That may not be right, but I do.

Bill

Because "Custom" means one of a kind, built to the exact customer's specifications gun. Each SA Professional is built exactly the same as the one before it, one after it, and one from last year. I would hardly call it even a semi-custom since there is not a single option that can be changed on a SA Pro, so it's really just a factory gun. The problem is that the true definition of "Custom" has been lost, and more often than not a custom gun means nothing more than a high quality gun, where as semi-custom is just a little better quality than factory, but still not as well built as custom. Here's how it should be IMO:

Production guns: Colt, Kimber, S&W, Springfiled, Sig, etc. They vary in quality and price, and range from "just OK" models to very well built ones such as SA Pro.
Semi-custom guns: Wilson, Baer, Brown, Nighthawk, etc. These also vary in quality, although not as much as production guns, and they allow for minor customization at the time of ordering. They still have some basic "rules" that they will not break.
Custom gun: One of a kind gun built to my specifications, by either an independent gunsmith or a custom shop. Customs usually start life as a bare frame and a pile of parts, or as very basic models that get built up. There are no rules, and you can get anything you want, however crazy it may sound, as long as you can find someone to build it for you.

So, once again, the "custom gun" label doesn't have anything to do with quality (although custom guns are expected to be very high quality, and they usually are); it simply means that it was built to someone's specs.
Just my $.02.

Thank you for the concise elaboration.

I agree with you and now see the light. I really enjoy this forum; it is unlike the other forums that are full of internet educated wannabe gun nuts that think they know everything because they read it on a forum full of idiots.

As for I, I work in retail firearms and have to say that this group of folks here are the best. I commend all of the members and custom 1911 builders here for creating a great forum. There is a great group of people here. I'm privilaged to be here. Thanks again all.

_________________
Guns are no more responsible for killing people than the spoon is
responsible for making Rosie O'Donnell fat.
Gary Paul Johnston, 1999

Alex, I agree with Barry. That is a great way to define the categories.

_________________
Steve

I own a pro and can say it is an excellent pistol, and is well worth the additional cost over a plain TRP, which i previously owned. It IS fit as a very fine custom pistol, but does lack the uniqueness of a truly custom piece, 'custom' having a more subjective definition these days.

Things i dislike about the pro include the 20 lpi checkering, specified by the FBI because most shooting would be done with gloves (i read this in a gunrag when the pro first came out but people like to argue about it); the slide saftey is really stiff, requiring a grip shift to engage but not disengage, and lastly the barrels are not crowned flush to the bushing which i consider a sine qua non of a true custom. The black-T is unfortunately layered over the barrel hood and wears ugly in a hurry, but I guess thats splitting cosmetic hairs..

Some special things to consider are that the pro is the most tested 1911 in history, and if it gets stolen or whatever, you can funds permitting go buy a new one, unlike my custom pieces which prefer to stay home in the safe..

I do plan on having a 'code 3' package done by hilton yam when available, i understand he fine tunes the functioning to perfection including correcting the saftey issue to the tune of 600$ (call me crazy).. I'm awaiting my surefire mr07 light-mount which will turn my pro into a X200 wielding night-stand gun.

I have several and wouldn't hesitate purchasing another if the price is right ($1600-1900), or $2000 if you just can't find any. There are only 2600-2700 examples in existence, and that includes those which have gone to the government. Most of all, I appreciate it because it was adopted by government entities, which in the arena of small arms, usually means it's better than normal. Their customer service at the custom shop is also top shelf!

I actually prefer the 20 lpi checkering. I don't find it uncomfortable at all, even afer a couple hundred rounds. It offers an unsurpased grip and this is, after all, meant to be a weapon, not a safe queen, so a secure grip, even in the wet, is essential.
I personally don't care for the ambi safety and I could do without the magwell extension but those are very minor gripes. It's a great gun. I like it better than the Wilson Tactical Elite that I owned and better than any Les Baer that I've handled. The Springfield Custom Shop customer service (warranty) is first class as well. Better than Baer or Brown for sure.
The only gun I own that I like more than the Pro is the custom Liebenberg that I had built a couple years ago. Functionally, they're equal, but the Liebenberg is exactly what I want, feels more comfortable in my hand (it also has 20 lpi checkering) and is a bit softer shooting.

Problem is, it's not that cut and dry. By those definitions a YoBo 1* wouldn't be a "custom", yet my Nighthawk Talon would be because they built it exactly how I spec'd it.

Actually, it is that cut and dry. And you're correct, YoBo 1* is not a custom gun, IMO; it's a semi-custom gun because you can't change every single part on it to the part of your choice - there is a pre-defined list of options that every 1* gun must have and it can't be changed. A Nighthawk is also a semi-custom gun because you are able to specify your own options, some of the minor parts, etc. Yet, you're limited to the major components that they offer (such as frames, slides, etc.), therefore it's not a true custom gun. Can you request a Nighthawk to be built on your choice of frame and slide? Or could you send them your Colt S70 and have them build it up? I doubt, but if you could, it would probably be a custom gun at that point.

And just to reiterate it once again - the "custom", "semi custom", or "production" labels don't have anything to do with quality, and a limited production YoBo 1* gun could be of a higher quality than a semi-custom Nighthawk, or even than a custom gun built by Bubba-the-gunsmith.

We'll just have to agree to disagree then.

Regardless, I like my Pro model and I shoot it very well. I have owned many 1911 handguns and this one fits me like a glove and I'm confident to say that custom or not, it is a high quality 1911. I'm sure we can all agree on that.

_________________
Guns are no more responsible for killing people than the spoon is
responsible for making Rosie O'Donnell fat.
Gary Paul Johnston, 1999

My 1* was built to my specs--only one restriction----the sights. I changed a few things and the guys at yobo were very accomodating. My SA Pro, is in my opinion, the best out of the box production gun there is, but it is a production gun. My 1* elite is a custom fit built to my order pistol. They took a beat up colt and did a number on it. the only original pieces on the gun are the slide and frame---sounds like a custom to me. the cusotm shop at SA will do the same thing for you--as a matter of fact they are building me a 10mm to professional specs as we speak--but it won't be a professional. The pros are great guns---I had a great time at class when a glock guy was telling me that the pros were prissy guns that needed to be babied---I finished that 2 day class with my pro and he had to switch guns twice--made me feel good about my prissy baby gun. Buy what you like--don't get hung on labels-- There will always be a "better gun"--just ask the guy standing next to you at the range