ltwguns.com

I have been seeing a lot of post’s lately with pictures of Thunder Ranch pistols. I have not heard much about how many rounds down the pipe or how many training schools they have been through though. I have second hand information that they range from extremely tight and not duty ready to how reliable and great they are. The only pistol I personally have seen is a friends that choked the first day at a Gunsite class. Consequently he finished the rest of the class with a rented Colt Gunsite pistol and ended up selling the Thunder Ranch as soon as he got back. Now I am not bashing the Thunder Ranch and praising the Colt. This is just one example and I am interested in hearing of more examples. We both feel that while the Colt Gunsite is very reliable (I have two and he has one) it needs a few things to be up to snuff so to speak. I have had both pistols modified. One by Chuck and the other by John Harrison. He also had his pistol modified. (I can’t remember who he used) Now in all three cases these pistols ran just fine before going to the smith. Some of if not many modifications were purely wanted by the end user i.e. high cut the front strap, bushing and re-crown, bevel the mag well, parkerize or gun-kote.
Also I am not in the market for a new pistol. I am just curious to hear more about the Thunder Ranch. Any comments from end user’s or pistol smith’s that have owned or worked on one would be appreciated. Again I am not bashing just curious so I thought I would try to start a discussion and hear some others thoughts about these pistols. I know they are not customs but just another production pistol from one company.
So if you have owned, own or worked over a TRS what are your thoughts and experience’s with this pistol. Good or bad. Did you modify it any after purchasing it? Has it run flawless since you bought it? Did you feel it needed to be modified to better suit the end user? Again not looking to bash just wanting to hear your thoughts. I have put almost as much work into my Gunsite pistol’s as they originally cost me. Did I need to? Probably not but I wanted to in order to make it my pistol and suit me. So let’s hear about your Thunder Ranch.

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09/11/01
Never forget, Never forgive

This post was by a moderator on this board.

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=53832

They are good guns. A little too tight IMHO, but they shoot. Mine has been great. If I could do it over, for the same price, I'd go with a Yost 1*.

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Hard work pays off

I have an early Thunder Ranch that has run 100%. It was not overly tight when I got it. It is my everyday carrygun, what more can I say. I have been looking for another early one............That is not to say that they are the equal of the offerings of these 'smiths, I just feel they are about the best "production customs".

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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒE
Thunder Ranch THG & UR(x2), Gunsite 250C,
Yavapai Firearms Acad HG1(x2), HG2, & SG,
Shootrite Prvt Inst HG, NRA Life Member

Scot, thanks for the link sir! That is a truly good recomendation.

Gunfighter, hello hope all is well with you. I have not seen an early one but if I do rest assured I will status with you asap!

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09/11/01
Never forget, Never forgive

I have a TRS; it's been 100% reliable and "lazer beam-like accurate" since new (though it's only been about 1000rds). The gun was really tight when new and found it impossible to press check until I had about 400rds through it. The only thing that I would change would be to grind off the checkering on the front strap as I find it pretty abrasive.
-RMF

I've been through 3 pistol classes with mine. The latest one took me to almost 1400 rounds in 2 days. 900 on just the first day. The only malfunction I had was shooter induced when my finger pushed out the slide stop (slightly) on a magazine change. I did purchase the 1.5" option and it was VERY tight from the start. After several thousand rounds it's very smooth and still snug. I didn't hestiate to buy another 1.5" gun from LB this past week. For 2 of the 3 classes, I didn't clean the gun for the 2nd day of class, but for the 3rd I did (the morning of the 2nd day). I used a grease for lubing the barrel lugs and rails that started to get pretty thick. It didn't stop the gun from functioning, but I degreased it and lubed with militec just in case. I figured it was good use of my time as I was an hour early for class.

I have only used a Kydex Blade-Tech holster. It's seen hundreds, if not thousands, of presentations and it shows almost no signs of holster wear. I purchased it with the bead blasted hard chrome finish from LB.

The trigger pull on mine was not as nice as my RRA 1911. LB said I could send it back and they would work on it, but I decided not to. I swapped it out for a YoBo kit. The parts in the YoBo kit looked identical to the ones I removed from the pistol, there must have been a slight difference though ... because the pull was improved. I didn't even need to change the thumb safety. I also swapped the variable rate recoil spring for an ISMI 18 lb spring.

The "Novak Style" sights it comes with were OK, but I switched mine for a YoBo Rear (see other thread about it) and a Novak FO front. The next pistol I purchase will likely be another LB - I'm a pretty happy customer.

I had far more problems with my looser Night Hawk 1911.

I have been wringing out two TRS pistols, one is a TRS HD and the other is a TRS Comanche. The TRS HD, for those who do not know (as I did not), is a blued Monolith Heavy with fixed sights, a strong-side safety, and the rest of the TRS stuff. And one other thing: it has a screwed on rail to mount a Streamlight M3 or Surefire X200. My coworker's came with the M3. The Comanche is mine (for a bit longer).

The TRS HD belongs to a co-worker but I have put the majority of rounds through it since he found it too tight to manipulate. He was unable (like others I have read about) to retract the slide. Personally I found it not nearly as tight as a Bullseye gun. I have had no issues manipulating the pistol. Why he bought it I have no idea. He has more or less given the pistol to me and it resides in my safe. (Yes, I need more friends like him.)

This pistol has been reliable from the first round through the thousand rounds I have put through it. I have been unable to make it not function in a range setting. I have not taken it to class nor am I likely to since this is a not a holster gun. I basically have been shooting it for groups since the extra weight makes it an easy shooter.

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Scott

I have a TRS and it's a great lead chucker...

TRS's are tight and need to be shot "loose". After about 2-3K rounds it's good to go...

Mace

Evan,

Scot has given you a good pointer to the LB forum over there, where you will find lots of satisfied customers if you do a search.

I have not owned a TRS, but I know those that do have many thousands of reliable rounds through theirs and have witnessed Clint and Heidi and the TR instructors (in TX) with some very-well broken-in pistols. I believe that these examples have sold lots of pistols.

Criticisms of the TRS are typical of criticisms of Baer pistols in general:
a) A fitting that is so tight that it makes the gun difficult to manipulate the slide for the first several hundred rounds.
b) Copies of Novak sights instead of the originals.
c) Magazines that are copies of Wilson-Rogers but perhaps not the equal.
d) Service has been great for some, not great for others.

Having said that, at the price point where you can pick up a low-mileage example of a basic blued 5" TRS, I think you will be hard pressed to find a pistol that has fewer issues.

I know of one well-documented example of a Comanche TRS that had issues that should have been resolved right away but were not. The owner was persistent and spent lots of money with other 'smiths getting it right. This was a hard-chromed example, which sounds like a good idea of you have seen some of the well-worn blued pistols and are concerned about corrosion or cosmetics, but if the gun doesn't work from the start you've spent a significant amount more to plate a pistol that really needs (IMO) a couple of thousand break-in rounds first.

Several TRS owners have taken the approach of shooting a blued example until they get like they want it and then sending it to Tripp for hard chrome.

One anomaly that I haven't been able to get a good answer on is that the TRS apparently ships with a variable-rate 18.5# recoil spring, which, like the tight fit, goes against conventional wisdom for 5" guns shooting ball or hotter. However, many owners have reported good results with this combination.

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Aubrey<><

I'd say the source is a trusted one:

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread. ... ght=spring

Jim at Les Baer Custom
Moderator


weights here for reference.
5inch full power guns P2,TRS etc.
18.5lb.recoil,21lb.main,ball gun has 23lb.main
commanches and stingers,21lb.recoil 21lb.main.
wadguns and 45comp guns 13lb.recoil and19lb.main
38super compguns 10lb.recoil 19lb. main.These will vary a little after they're broke in you can often go with a heavier recoil spring in the super.
9mm. 5inch 13lb. recoil 17/19lb. main
These are just a general guide, if you buy a used gun there is no telling what spings are in it.Also over the years some of the spring weights have changed, for a long time we used 16 1\2 pound variable recoil springs in the P2's.But these weights are the current ones

I retail most if not all of the Custom as well as Higher End 1911's. and you will find satisfied, extremely satisfied folks with all makes and craftsmen. I just post here to give you a bit of a perspective.

I and many, if not 99.999999% of the readers and actual users have found out the 1911 is very, very, very, hard to wear out. And also take some one who can spell GUN or think 1911 is not long distance emergency to use one as it was designed to be used.

I still use as a demo a 1911 built in 1920 or there abouts. (Serial number 191111 for you colt fans if you have one of the books and can PM me the actual date). I have a Baer gun, with the original Baercoat in stock that I know is pushing 8 k. I also use a Wilson Tactical Service Pistol with about twice that. Again neither has issues. But get what you feel best with or the company that will support you better.

Point I have found from many, many, folks is this. The devil is in the details. Many times I hear this is cheaper than that and is just as good. No it isn't as in the long run you will pay.

Well there is a reason it is cheaper. Parts costs, time to build, availability, Blue steel instead of stainless, not true parts, i.e instead of Novak sights a knock off. Corrosion protection of a coating, plating or stainless over blue. How many times have we heard, "My production whatever is just as good as your whatever", want to bet, Reputations are earned not given. The average guy on a production gun will fire maybe 500 a year. Readers of this forum may shoot that a month on average.

Remember, discounts are for a reason and your undying gratitude has nothing to do with it.

Check out the fine detail on each make and model. If you are on the coast with high humidity and salt. A blued gun may not be for you.

One other thing on complaints on various makers. Please keep in mind something I learned from retail and forums. Most of the complaints are operator issues not gun issues and the written communication such as this is many times written MISS communication.

Again just to give you a bit of a thought.

Best in your quest and pay heed to my tag line.

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Be safe and keep the brass flying

Terry Peters

Do your research but you get what you pay for front end or back end
http://www.pt-partners.com
@ptpartners_tx

This is a much belated response to your inquiry but might be of some interest. I have owned a TRS for some time now and think very highly of it. I have owned many name brand 1911s, Wilson, Brown, etc., but when I began a couple of years ago divesting myself of guns not often used, the TRS was, for a variety of reasons, the one I kept. I too found it quite tight so I sent it to Yost Bonitz to be rendered "finger tight", and to have some of the sharp edges on the left side of the slide removed to better accomodate my thumbs forward grip. I also had them replace the mainspring housing with one of their 30 lpi msp housings to match the checkering on the front strap. They also replaced the thumb safety with a modified Brown safety that duplicates the one used on their own guns and installed a short trigger. I then changed out the grip bushings to fit a Crimson Trace Laser grip, a tool I have come to value. Manual of arms drills are now easily manipulated by my arthritic hands, the gun is easy to disassemble, and my hit percentages are up when I use the CT laser to supplement the iron sights. The gun runs better than I do and my original decision to purchase it, predicated in large part on my abiding respect for Clint Smith, was one of my best gun buying decisions of all time. Hope this helps.

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Land of the free BECAUSE of the brave!

While I do not own a TRS, I do own two Les Baer Commanches ( one an S.R.P. and the other a Concept VII), so my comments are geared toward Baer pistols in general. Let me address a few of the issues I've read from others who have posted in this thread.

First, Baer guns are without question among the tightest in the business - largely because of the fact that their tolerances are held to extremely close standards. These are not weapons for the novice or uninitiated - they do require a break-in period (Les himself recommends that you and your new Baer spend at least 500 rounds together before keeping one another company on a daily basis). Once "run-in", however, the guns run like magic - provided that you remain faithful in cleaning and maintenance. Let's face it - if you want a gun you can bury in the back yard and dig up in case of emergencies, buy a Glock.

While my Concept VII is stock, my S.R.P. has a number of additional options - several of which aren't typically offered on their Commander-length guns. The folks at LBC were very willing to make my requested modifications. I did have one defective LBC magazine that stubbornly refused to accept its 8th round - it was promptly replaced without questions.

Yes, the LBC sights are copies of the Novak design. But remember, the Les Baer (as well as Wilson, Ed Brown, Caspian, etc.) are copies of the Colt design (i.e 1911 platform). The questions that must be answered of any copy is whether or not it is well-executed and whether or not it represents any evolution of the priginal design. In the case of teh LBC sights, both are the case. The sights are extremely well fabricated (both of mine also contain tritium lamps from Trijicon) and the rear sight body features serrations for extra purchaseduring one-handed clearance drills.

Again, my experience is with LBC pistols in general and not the TRS specifically. However, in my hands and the hands of other experiennced shooters, neither of mine has experienced so much as a single hiccough. Hope this helps.

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J.S. Boswell

I decided to take my TRS (w/ 1.5" Option) to two pistol classes. I cleaned it in the beginning of the first and at the end of the 2nd. I ended up doing 2200 rounds in 4 days and the only problem I had was shooter induced. I pushed out the slide stop (about 1/8th of an inch) with my indexed trigger finger.

It's not as low maintenance as a glock - but it's pretty good. I think it would have done a 3rd class .... but I opted to change out the sights and recoil spring. While neither of those two things required a cleaning .... I had to do it (I can't leave a dirty gun sit).

I don't have a TRS yet, but I'm considering one. I got a P2 a short time back and it's very reliable and super accurate. Would having the TRS hard chromed be a good idea?

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Lynnie, NRA Life Member

I currently own a TRS. To be honest, stock LB guns seem to work well for many folks... it's just not for me. Long story short...it's a good gun now.

After 3,000 rounds (no really, 3k downrange) it could not be press checked without using the "squeeze" technique, which I do not enjoy. I was fed up and ready to get rid of the thing when I decided to send it off to a (now well known) 'smith on the recommendation of a friend.

This smith was meticulous and, at the time, polite enough to not tell me the internals of my $1,500 TRS were POS. Instead he spend many hours setting it up correctly and in hindsight charged me very modestly. By that I mean it was ready for work.

I'm not the man to do it, but I know other smiths on this board could describe the unique way LB sets up his guns, if they were asked and so inclined.

In addition to getting it setup right, I've had the trigger reworked and the sights replaced with Heinies. After many more rounds & classes (couldn't even count them) it runs 100%, is accurate to my standards, can be press checked, can be broken down easily, and needs a good refinish.

Would I sell it, nope. Would I trust my life with it, yup. Would I give LB any more money, no way. The dollars put into this gun to get it where it needed to be would afford many fine duty-grade offerings from other gentlemen.

Steve

...please elaborate...no one is gonna hang you out to dry on this board. We would like to know of any technical points of which you speak...info like this can help us all...


Mace

The quote was intended only to say that based on my experience, LB guns are not setup the way others, in whom I have trust, might build a gun.

I am not technically proficient enough to detail the measurements, tolerances, and angles associated with setting up a 1911 "properly".

I happily pay others who are. Obviously, one man's "properly" might be another's "wrong". I made a point to mention LB products are great for some users out of the box, just not my thing for the reasons I explained.

The post intentionally passed on only general first hand opinions which were shared with me. Any attempt for me to put forth other's specific opinions on LB fit, observable internal wear patterns, and overal setup would not be very professional and is not suited to this forum. Frankly, it could cost me a spot on a list, or worse a friend.

Your question seems better directed towards pistolsmiths who have worked on and are very familiar with the differences between LB's pistols and ther own (and willing to pubicly share). I'm just a guy who wants a reliable gun and tries to listen hard when someone smarter is talking.

It's funny you've got to be careful when talking about Baer's online. Folks can be touchy 'bout them for some reason. The topic has shut down a thread or three. My opinion: they are what they were intended to be, nothing more.

Steve

...me too....

I own a LB TRS....no worries. IT RUNS....I also have a Yost 1* and a Chuck Rogers SA...they are all GTG!!! The Don Williams BHP is flat out incredible TOO!

Mace