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I have two pre series 70 Colt LW Commanders.
I bought them over the past couple years when I was able to find one.
They have both been carried and shot but there are no stress marks to the naked eye.

For quite some time I thought these would be my perfect gun to make into an EDC gun.

Now I am starting to wonder about that...
I know they are great, they are light etc etc
BUT I also know it is not the ideal gun to shoot high round counts (or at least I should say that is what I have picked up from other message boards about the 1911)

I am starting to think for a carry gun which would also be used for training and such I would be MUCH better off going with a Caspian TI or even Carbon.....

What do you guys think?

I do not want to dump the money into building a beautiful classic gun which would suffer due to very high use (as I said I like to be able to use my guns when I train which can be tough and high round counts).

What is going to hold up better?
What would you guys do?
Am I really going to save that much weight in a LW Commander vs a Carbon or TI Caspian?

IF the LW Commander isnt going to wear as well as a TI or Carbon frame Id rather get the LW Commander in the hands of someone who it would serve better...

I am in the process of sorting all of my stuff and going to be selling LOTS of things soon, just trying to figure out what I am going to get rid of and what I want to replace it with.

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Kentucky Colonel, Tennessee Squire & Combat Leprechaun
"You won't rise to the occasion - you'll default to your level of training." Barrett Tillman

Since you have two, why not sell one and buy a Combat Commander? You could have them built the same, train with the steel gun and EDC the LW.

Matched sets are cool.

Well here is a thought. I love carrying lightweight guns but I am a firm believer in round count and effective training and having owned and worn a lightweight springer frame out, here is my take. I would have them set up as equals I.E. action, sight's and checkering and such with a few mods. Put either a ramped supported barrel in one or go for a steel feedramp in one or both and the one I trained with I would invest in accu-rails to save a frame fit. Do the accu-rails to the one you train with then dont bother with the one you carry. Man I am jealous, having two I would run them similar and set my training gun functionally the same as my fighting gun then as I was explaining set the training gun up to minimize wear and tear. Sounds like with two you have a lot of options. I have had pairs like that and it really expands your options and with the combo you have you are only limited by your imagination. I have found that if you like to shoot the lightweight ones a lot especially with hollow points a feed ramp mod will pay off in spades and the accu-rails although pricey will make the frame fit last far longer than rubbing aluminum with steel. The only reservation I would have is they are both pre 70 and should fetch a decent price. Now all that to say putting them in the hands of a collector and buying two 80 sreies lightweight's might be another option and with the mod's I mentioned wouldn't hack any future potential collector value. Hope I gave you some good brain food. Best...

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"One thought he was invincible the other thought he could fly" well? "They were both wrong"
SIC VIS PACEM PARABELLEM

First, you should sell one to me !

Seriously, don't put a ramped barrel in either one. Go the route of a steel frame insert instead - many of the 'smiths I read of and a few I know say that the ramped barrel is not as reliable in the single stack .45.

A properly fitted barrel and bushing will give you more than enough accuracy.

Good luck - we all should have such a problem. The idea of having a steel Commander for genreal use, and a LW for carry is not a bad idea.

I just dont understand why I wouldnt be better suited building on newer frames?

What are the advantages to using these?

I do like the idea of a matched pair.

NO ramped barrel!

Dead nuts accuracy isnt needed, I only have carry guns so no need to hit pin heads just a nice tight fist grouping will make me happy for carry

I dont know...
I feel like I am destroying a piece of histroy and could do the same with a newer frame which would last much longer

I was going to keep them in the safe but I dont see the value skyrocketing on these as they were users not NIB

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Kentucky Colonel, Tennessee Squire & Combat Leprechaun
"You won't rise to the occasion - you'll default to your level of training." Barrett Tillman

Well since a ramped barrel is out the insert is a good idea. And as far as the value it may not skyrocket but they only made so many pre 70 commanders and they ain't makin no more. I would go with a newer one personally as the fit, finish and metallurgy will be a bit better. I think the biggest advantage to the new ones is the previous and the pro smith's know how to make the 80 series triggers sing. But whatever you decide good luck and good shooting.

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"One thought he was invincible the other thought he could fly" well? "They were both wrong"
SIC VIS PACEM PARABELLEM

I carry a Custom Combat Commander loaded with 9 rounds of 230 gr. ball. Is it heavy? I guess......but you get used to it in a hurry. I own a NIB LW Commander which is a collectible only. I recommend you sell the two LWs you have and buy a new gun that meets your needs from Colt or Springer.

Any gun I carry must be shot a lot to verify it works and for training. I just don't see LW Commanders holding up that well.

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Bob

Smiths and 1911s are what it's all about!

If a regular old gun from Colt or SA suited my needs I wouldnt be here = )

I think one of the LW Commanders is going to end up going to a charity... The other is going to end up with one of the LTW Smiths as soon as my turn comes up on his list and it will be done up in a true classic style. It will not be used as an EDC gun.

Caspian frames for builds suits me just fine.... (Till someone makes me drink some special Coool Aid to convince me another frame is better)

I also would have a lot more money in my safe and more guns!

(figure 5 regular 1911's stock for the cost of one nice custom... Hell, if I liked Glocks, with what I spend on 1911's I could equip a small army with Glocks haha)

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Kentucky Colonel, Tennessee Squire & Combat Leprechaun
"You won't rise to the occasion - you'll default to your level of training." Barrett Tillman

Sorry, I didn't recognize you were a custom 1911 guy......I should have since we're on LTW! LW Commanders are a nice idea but those Colt aluminum frames aren't durable. Do your project with one and shoot the heck out of it. We'd all like to know what kind of wear characteristics develop.

Have fun,

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Bob

Smiths and 1911s are what it's all about!

I don't know much about 1911's, but I have more than a nodding acquaintance with fine shotguns. I've heard for years that a lightweight game gun isn't durable, and won't take a lot of shooting. My two favorites are 94 and 76 years old, respectively - and since I've owned them they've killed more birds than H5N1. Still on the face, still tight, still in proof, and those spindly, weak stocks haven't broken yet.

To say that a properly maintained Colt lightweight Commander is not durable is to perpetuate what amounts to an old wives' tale. First, a pre-70's LW is already 30 years old! What do you really expect? Does your $40,000 car last that long? And if it did, what would it look like, and what would it be worth? If it still functioned properly after 30 years, would you still drive it?

Put it in perspective, apart from all the romance and nostalgia BS. Guys like finely crafted mechanical devices that incorporate style and art. Not a bad thing at all, and in my view, a guy should own as many fine things as he can, and use them daily. That is a part of the satisfaction we derive from working hard for those things. We deserve it! If you wear it out, Good on ya. Get another one, this time a little better than the last.

Old LW's build into some of the most elegant, beautiful carry guns anywhere. They last as long as you want them to. You decide how long that will be by how well you maintain them, how much you subject them to adverse conditions, and how much you want them to last.

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Heirloom Precision, LLC.
480-804-1911

Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing.

TR

I know that Ted has forgotten more about 1911's than I will ever know, but I thought I would add a bit to what he mentioned above. There are many good service pistols built on Aluminum Frames that take a great deal of abuse and last for many thousands of rounds.

Beretta and SIG are certainly not custom pieces, but they will likely last as long as you care to keep them around. I shoot the snot out of my 220, and I have never thought for a moment that I was wearing it out with every round fired. Seems as tight as the day I got it.

But of course, Ted already told you it was an Old Wive's Tale

5Shot

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I will never forget you Lou......February 21, 2009

John Ralston
5 SHOT LEATHER, LLC - Finely Crafted Custom Handgun Leather

http://www.5ShotLeather.com

I'm sure all you gunsmith gurus are totally correct. My point is based on one simple idea. My carry piece is NOT a toy or a work of art! It is a TOOL I rely on to save my life if/when necessary. As such, I will never carry a Colt with an aluminum frame for PD .

It's a mindset thing and only pistols I have confidence in qualify. I don't consult old wives on anything

Have a great day!

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Bob

Smiths and 1911s are what it's all about!

I'm just curious as to how fragile you think a LW frame is? You sound as if you think it will not last past several thousand rounds. I'd carry a LW Colt in a heartbeat, and I'm anxiously awaiting mine to be completed - when it is, it will see a lot of CCW time. Even if the frame did crack right when you actually were using the gun in defense, I'd imagine you would still be able to finish out the fight.

I also don't recall anyone ever mentioning here that the 1911's featured are "toys". Make no mistake, they may be beautiful, but I can pretty much guarantee you each gunsmith that features a pistol on this forum builds it to work perfectly in a defensive situation.

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Hard work pays off

That's cool. More for the rest of us.

I guess I'm just not following.... A properly built, reliable, functional tool can't be a work of art? Do the Rolex people know this? Should someone tell rest of the smiths who build beautiful guns that we all have it wrong?

I didn't mean to get your back up. All I'm drawing from is 25 years of building guns, many of which are LW's. My statement stands - a properly maintained Colt LW will last as long as the owner wishes it to. The responsibility for this also falls to the owner - maintenance is important, perhaps moreso than it is with any other 1911 based model, but you take the time to maintain the things you care about.

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Heirloom Precision, LLC.
480-804-1911

Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing.

TR

You didn't get my back up Ted. We're simply talking past each other. You have been building guns for 25 yrs. and I've been shooting them since I was 6.......about 60 years ago. My history includes service to my country during war, extensive PD training and many years of competitive shooting. It's possible we both know what we're talking about. A TOOL can, of course, be a work of art and a toy. The crux is what you put first in order of importance. As a collector, shooter and competitor, I have significant numbers of all three. Many of my toys and art pieces would not be considered reliable enough by me to use for PD carry.

The piece I carry, which you built, is pretty but my point of emphasis is as a totally reliable and DURABLE tool. It has a hard chrome finish for durability, longevity and cleanability(is that a word?). I much perfer blue but that is for works of art and toys that might also be useful tools.

I'm curious as to what effect proper maintenance has on a LW aluminum frame. What are you thinking of that would help extend its durability and structural integrity?

Scott: An imagination is a useful and wonderful thing and if your LW should crack during a fight, I hope it does carry you through. How many guns have you been shooting in the past when the frame cracked. I've had three that I recall immediately.

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Bob

Smiths and 1911s are what it's all about!

There's less to keeping a LW healthy than you'd think. Three main things -
First, recoil springs should be changed at conservative intervals. I recommend every 8 - 900 rounds.

Second, avoid magazines that have followers that can contact the feedramp while feeding the last round. Wilsons, Tripp, Novaks, and the like will go a long way toward preventing feedramp damage.

Lastly, lubrication. Probably not as critical in environments less dusty than points west, but not to be ignored. Steel on aluminum can cause abrasion of the anodizing on the frame rails. It would take a lot of neglect to cause serious damage, and even more to precipitate a failure in this area. I recommend a grease like TW25B. It stays put very well and offers optimal protection while lubricating properly.

In all the Colt lightweights I've handled, I've seen only one type of frame cracking. The dustcover cracks where the reoil spring guide seats. There are two causes - one, and the most prevalent by far, is a tired recoil spring. The crack in this case is a result of the stresses in the metal caused by excessive and unnecessary shock at the rear of the slide's cycle. Two, the use of a too-soft shock buffer, something also typically encountered in conjunction with a worn out recoil spring. When that shock buffer gets mashed, the rubber has to go somewhere. It is pressed outward, where it contacts the dust cover, expanding the metal outward. Aluminum doesn't rebound well from this type of stress, and cracks can occur. The good news is that you can run these guns for thousands of rounds with a crack in the dust cover. The thick bottom of the frame at the front of the trigger guard root will keep this crack from spreading all the way across.

I have seen only one instance of a failure in an alloy frame that immediately crippled a pistol. A cast 356T6 frame broke out at the magazine catch lock slot, and the catch was unsecured, with no immediate repair available. I've never seen a Colt LW rendered unserviceable by anything other than abuse or neglect.

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Heirloom Precision, LLC.
480-804-1911

Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing.

TR

I can't tell y'all how much it makes my day when a single post informationally jumps my incredibly neophytic 1911 knowledge up a level! Thanks Ted!

Oh, and TW25 smells great too!

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God Bless
45Fundi

I agree with 45Fundi...I've learned a lot from this thread and I'm really glad Ted posted that good stuff. Where can we get this TW25B? I want to start "huffing" some right away!

Ted's point about shock buffs is important in general. I once bought a used ParaO P14 from a guy whose hands were too small. It would barely run and when I took it apart the shock buff looked more like a big jelly bean. It squished out and stopped the slide. They should not be used if you won't disassemble and clean the piece regularly and change the buffs.

Ted: your post convinced me to stay with steel

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Bob

Smiths and 1911s are what it's all about!

So that vintage COLT LW in my safe that is shot a few times a year with mild hand loads will still be going how long from now?

Good to know.

S&WIowegan,

The guys at YOBO sell TW 25B. Here's a link to Mill-Comm to purchase it directly. http://www.mil-comm.com/weapons_lubricants.html.

William Smith

Ok, not from any funny way... Ted is a stud! Thats why we hang out here. That and to see what new pics Bailey has for us........

Thank you very much for all the info here from everyone and especially to Ted for jumping in here with some info...
That made me feel quite a bit better about my projects with the LW Commanders.

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Kentucky Colonel, Tennessee Squire & Combat Leprechaun
"You won't rise to the occasion - you'll default to your level of training." Barrett Tillman

I currently have 4 in the line for complete packages. Personally, if I had any doubts as to how they would hold up I'd recommend the customer use something else.

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Don Williams
http://www.theactionworks.com
http://www.ltwguns.com

I have no where near the knowledge of Ted or Don, but currently I trust my life to a Colt 80 series LW Commander. Nuff said!!

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http://www.landsharkleather.com/
Building Hand Crafted Leather for the 1911 Platform

Titanium.

I would rather have a gun that I wore out with honest shooting, than a safe queen that I'd never shot. But, the more rare the piece is, the more I want to carry and use it. I've carried a Heinie Colt on duty for years that some people would say is worth too much to use. Some day, my kids or grand kids will inherit it and say, "Why did that idiot wear this expensive thing out?" I'm sorry I won't be around to laugh.

My biggest fear is to be KIA and have the report say that I had a Taurus in my holster or that my knife was made in Taiwan.

Seriously, I treasure my old tools that have my sweat on them more than the ones that are oiled and new.

So, fix up that LW Commander and carry it with pride, or sell it to someone who will and buy a couple of Kimbers that will serve you just as well.

ML

FWIW, I am seriously considering selling a 1976 colt LW commander... it has had a beavertail fitted, front sight dovetailed, and teflon finish so anyone that wants to hack on it can do so without worrying about destroying a piece of history.

I bought 2 Ti frames for ground up builds, and plan on shooting the crap out of them in USPSA/IDPA/etc...

Holy smokes. I've had that bad dream. Glad to know I'm not the only one.

Hi Y'all, this is my first post on this forum and hopefully not the last. Appears to be lots of great people and talent here........

I bought a 70 series LWC a few years ago (CLW019xxx) and got it for a good price because the feed ramp was screwed up from someone over cutting it and the bottom edge of the barrel. It is slightly "V" shaped in the center of the ramp. Also 3 of the grip screw bush. holes were stripped out , but that's no biggie as i was able to get an oversize tap and bushings from Brownells.
The original frame finish has apparently been stripped off as it is bare polished alum. I'd like to know what the original finish was. I'm guessing some type of hard anodize. Does anyone know for sure what it was? There is still some of the finish left on the frame rails and inside the frame and it is black.
The slide is beautifully polished blue flats and matte top.
Now the issue of the feed ramp and barrel. There seems to be some controversy over a steel insert verses a ramped barrel. I'd appreciate some opinions on this subject and will start with a few of mine.
First of all most seem to argue the insert is better than the ramped barrel. Is this because of reliability or structural strenghth? I picked up an allmost new Para commander length barrel at a gunshow and was thinking of using it instead of an insert but haven't done anything yet. Why would that be a reliability issue if it was done correctly? If you use an insert it would have to be crosspinned would'nt it? The only inserts i've seen are EGW and don't know how much difference the frame cuts would be dimensionally from one to the other, if that would be a structural concern.
Also could someone tell me what year it was made, I've not been able to pin that down either.
Thanks...............

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Chuck

Anything worth doing, is worth doing right the first time

Loner, Your Commander is a 1975 model. As for the steel insert vs. ramped barrel, most smiths believe that the 45 ACP in a 1911 doesn't really need a ramped barrel, and in fact feel that for the most part, it really feeds better without the integral ramp. As to the strength issue when installing a steel insert, it's a non-issue as far as I'm concerned. All the alloy removed from the frame is replaced with a solid piece of steel, which is pinned/screwed and/or epoxied in place. The only way it could become problematic is if you wanted to re-anodize the frame after the insert was installed. It would have to be removed in that case. You original finish was most likely a type II anodizing, as I don't believe that hard anodizing can be color dyed (though I'm not positive about that).
Best,

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Don Williams
http://www.theactionworks.com
http://www.ltwguns.com