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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:46 pm 
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Firearms Industry
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Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:40 pm
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Location: Durango, CO
It's pretty much a given to most serious practical/tactical shooters that an enlarged mag well funnel of some sort gives a serious boost in the speed and/or consistency of the shooter’s reloads under stress. No less authority than The Great One himself, Rob Leatham, has written that he considers it the most important modification after good sights and trigger. This is especially true of the single stack 1911’s, as they do not benefit from the tapered magazine tops of the double stack designs.

These benefits are not just limited to the competition realm, but apply to fighting pistol applications as well. Single stack 1911’s, while arguably the most inherently shootable fighting pistol platform, do not hold that many rounds. Having to reload under stress, while engaging better armed/ multiple threats is a distinct possibility. Recent active shooter incidents, such as the one in the Salt Lake City mall, illustrate this well. Our local rural LEO’s are often 30 miles or more from the nearest backup. Let it be said, however, that no modification or gizmo can replace dedicated training and practice of weapon manipulation fundamentals.

Nonetheless, we can all use whatever edge we can get. To date our choices in enlarged mag wells/funnels have been

1.) A simple mag well bevel of the existing frame. This should be considered a minimum. It can be made much more effective by beveling back into the mainspring housing, done most effectively using a Legacy Custom MSH (shameless plug), which allows this modification without a knife edge at the rear of the well that can catch on mags and get beat up over time. This is a noticeable help, and a viable option for many users. However, we can do better, performance wise….

2.) S&A/ Wilson, etc. extended add on mag funnels. These are effective, relatively inexpensive, and easy to install. Their major disadvantage is that they extend below the frame of the 1911, adding unnecessary bulk, compromising concealability, and requiring the use of extended base pads. These pistols are big enough as is.

3.) Weld on/bolt on horseshoe shaped mag funnels, as installed by many of the modern master pistolsmiths. These are fantastic in that they give a very large opening, and add no length or width to the pistol. Their major disadvantage is that the horseshoe in the front prevents the shooter from stripping out the magazine, using the front lip of the base pad, in the event that the magazine becomes stuck in the pistol. They also require skilled installation.

So, if we could spec out the perfect mag well/funnel for the single stack 1911, the list might look like this:

1.) Dramatically increases mag well opening for speed and consistency while reloading under stress.
2.) Adds no length or width to the pistol, so that concealability is not compromised.
3.) Allows access to the magazine lip, so that the magazine can be forcefully extracted in the event it becomes stuck in the pistol.
4.) Be machined entirely from bar stock for strength, durability, and overall quality of final fit and finish.


(I suppose to be perfect, it would cost $15 and anyone could install it 5 minutes with a screwdriver. That’s not gonna happen, so let‘s not even consider it. :wink: )

We have a solution. I’m excited to introduce the Chen/Legacy Custom Magwell, designed from the ground up to meet ALL of our criteria outlined above (no snazzy name yet, buy we're working on it!). It represents a tremendous amount of R&D and design work on my part, with the initial design concept beginning in 2003. It became quickly apparent to me that traditional machining techniques would not be adequate for bringing my vision to being in metal, as the machining of the required geometry and surfaces could not be done in the traditional manner. So I utilized solid modeling CAD/CAM technology to design the part and generate the required toolpaths in order to CNC machine the part using multiaxis interpolation (a fancy way of saying turning all the handles on the machine at the same time). This was all done completely in house, in my shop.

Image


The entry angle was CAD/CAM’ed to be optimized at every point along the contour of the magwell; that is, it allows for the easiest insertion angle at any given point. Traditional magwells maintain a constant angle at all points along the contour, as they are cut with some form of a chamfer mill or countersink that is only capable of cutting a fixed angle. As illustrated with an original Brown magwell, one of the excellent long time standards in weld ons:.

Image

As you can see, the front of the Chen/Legacy horseshoe has a geometry that is considerably reduced compared to traditional weld on magwells. As such, a single entry angle along the entire contour will not work, IF we want an optimized entry angle. On our magwell, the entry angle constantly changes, and is optimized, at every point along the contour of the front of the horseshoe. (I have pictures of this being machined, but don’t want to tie up more bandwidth, unless requested)

As installed, after some machining, TIGing (or you can just as easily braze), and blending. 0.300” is machined off the bottom of the frame and it is installed in the traditional weld on manner by a competent 1911 smith. After cutting several prototypes, we found it was necessary to go to 0.300" in order to accomodate the mag stripping feature.

Image



Image

The inside geometry was carefully designed to give the very maximum amount of funnel surface.

Image

Of course, a Legacy Custom MSH is used..... :wink:

Image

Image

Image


Note the access notch in front. A stuck magazine can be forcefully extracted. The radius of the cut was designed so that the baseplate of a spare magazine can be used for extra leverage in ripping the sutck mag out. Simply cutting this notch in an existing magwell design is not totally satisfactory, as it does not blend with the inside contour that is already cut into the existing magwells. A totally new contour is needed, which is what we’ve done.

Image


Image




For the time being, these will be machined on a limited basis by me in my shop, until we get a shop on board to do production. As they are done on a more or less one off manner, they unfortunately won’t be inexpensive. Eventually I'd like to also offer the magwell packaged in a "suite" with my mainspring housings, with the rear bevel of the MSH already machined to match the contours of the magwell perfectly.

Drawings are already done for a Slim version, for use with thin grips or those who prefer the more low profile of a magwell tucked up under standard grips. Also, if there is sufficient demand, I might be talked into a bolt on version, for those who prefer not to weld.

Thanks for looking!

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:12 pm 
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Location: Casper, WY
Three hours south of me lives my short & balding Chinese friend Stan. As soon as the passes get dry enough to Harley on down, the bride and I will once again be paying him and his lovely family a visit.

While we're there and after he whittles on his (I owe CT x amount of burgers) bill, I intend to fill my pockets with his new mag well for the ride back home.

Simply OUTSTANDING Stanley! A much needed and extremely well designed piece! I'm especially loving the 'thin' one.

You've done well, WeedWhacker.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:10 pm 
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Wow :shock: that´s absolutely gorgeous in every detail,
pure Stan work uhu!

Love how it blends, just perfect!


Alex.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:16 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:52 pm
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Gentlemen of LTW, you never cease to amaze. The details in your work and products is unparalleled. The word artist has been used "to death" but it definitely applies in this forum. My Dad, who is an engineer, would find what he calls "true beauty" in your work.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:19 pm 
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So that's what you've been up to lately! That's pretty quick execution between good idea and finished product. I sure like it and were it not so far, I'd drive over and beat Timmy to the burgers for a close up look. :shock:

That's very creative and attractive. I feel certain that it'll be well received mucho sought after. Congrats, Stan-O! :D

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:47 pm 
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Location: Mesa, AZ
Very cool mag-well Stan... very cool indeed! 8)

Will I maybe get to see one of these in action next week? :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:09 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 1:15 pm
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Very nice indeed. However, I'm a crusty old fart, and want a mag funnel that has no lip at all in front. So I guess I'll wait to see the low-profile one.

Should be cool.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:41 pm 
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Quote:
However, I'm a crusty old fart, and want a mag funnel that has no lip at all in front.
Me too!

Nice work, Stan.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:42 pm 
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Just when I was starting to ask, hey, what's up with Chen, ain't been hearing much from him....?

"Yep....had my magwell chopped and Chenneled...."

Looks great, Stan!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:07 pm 
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Shooting Oreos, cracking puns. Guys, the symptoms are clear: Ned is bored, we need to make him work some more.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:39 pm 
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Beautiful blending . That mouth looks wide enough for a double mag .


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:48 pm 
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Location: British Columbia, Canada
Oh my!!! Thought EGW had their act together... I'll be "Chen'ing" my next magwell install! Very nice Stan! :shock:

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:56 am 
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The 'bar' gets raised again!
:D
This is the new "Gold Standard" of custom magwells.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:22 pm 
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Very practical, indeed.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:42 am 
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very very nice..

its great to see someone take the next step and make the improvements on the magwell...

now..how to get one onto my gun :D


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:10 am 
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I have never had magwell envy until now! That is sweeeeeet!


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:35 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:40 pm
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Location: Durango, CO
Hey, thanks everyone for the compliments, it really means a lot. :D :D I hope it will add some tangible practical utility for good guys going in harm's way and anyone else who wants a performance edge without compromise.

I started with the version you see pictured as the highest performance, "form follows function" design. That funnel is perhaps as big as you can make it for maximized reload performance, without adding unnecessary bulk. The Slim version, used with normal grips, won't noticeably decrease the bulk, and of course will yield a smaller funnel opening, but many prefer the more low profile look of them.

CT, get thee down here that tab is killing me. Johnny, I need your help! And hey Mr. CT, I'll have you know that on good hair days, they let me ride on almost any grown up roller coaster out there!

Patrick, I think you're on to something about Ned. Next he will be comparing magwells based on volumetric measurements of how many Oreos he can stuff in there. Been meaning to give you a high five on your new gig....did you all know Patrick is the new Handguns Editor at Guns and Ammo? Congratulations!! And hang in there, perhaps I'll come out with the SCOF magwell someday (Sweeney Crusty Old Fart, of course :wink: )

Jason- Unlikely for next week, completely swamped here. Besides, with a big funnel like that on my pistol, what excuse would I have for my reloads?

Chuck, that means the world coming from you. Your incredible mag well craftsmanship has been a HUGE inspiration to me, and many others.

eerw- shouldn't be a problem for your favorite smith...

And to everyone else, many thanks again for the feedback, your support is super appreciated!

Here's an action shot.....
Image

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http://www.chencustoms.com


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:35 pm 
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Oh, and Mr. Chen............ Now that the whole world knows that you have a camera and the ability to use it, we'll be expecting to see frequent submissions of your handiwork in the pistola department!

:? :shock: :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:17 pm 
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Very well thought out piece. Its amazing how far a relatively simple piece can be taken with a little knowledge and talent.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:32 pm 
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Stan, that settles it I am off to buy a mill and hopefully in 20 or 30 years if I am not dead I'll be almost as cool as you, Chuck, or Ned! :D

Any how the new magwell, is very well thought out and executed.

Nicely done.

Mark

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:00 am 
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Quote:
Oh, and Mr. Chen............ Now that the whole world knows that you have a camera and the ability to use it, we'll be expecting to see frequent submissions of your handiwork in the pistola department!

:? :shock: :wink:
Amen.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:54 am 
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I am all over one of these things when they hit the market. That magwell is very slick. I want to be the first kid on the IDPA/USPSA block in my area to run one of these.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 4:58 pm 
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Stanley, Very cool dude. I've already got someone who wants one. You done good. :)

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:39 pm 
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Stan, you never cease to amaze me. I have been watching your work for years, and you always show that little something extra. Excellent work, my friend!

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 6:52 am 
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Stan,

The stuff you do amazes me. VERY COOL!!!!!!

I am going to have to try your magwell on a build that I have for later this year.

Congrats on more immaculate work.

Best,

Ray


P.S.: I may be coming through year area in June/July, for what we discussed before. Do you think I could get a tour of your shop and one of those hamburgers?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 7:13 am 
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The blending on the magwell is amazing.

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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 9:08 am 
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Quote:
Three hours south of me lives my short & balding Chinese friend Stan. As soon as the passes get dry enough to Harley on down, the bride and I will once again be paying him and his lovely family a visit.

While we're there and after he whittles on his (I owe CT x amount of burgers) bill, I intend to fill my pockets with his new mag well for the ride back home.

Simply OUTSTANDING Stanley! A much needed and extremely well designed piece! I'm especially loving the 'thin' one.

You've done well, WeedWhacker.
Hey hey hey now, follicly challenged individuals are people too!! (me being one of them!) Just kidding, but not really :D

Anyway, one of my biggest regrets right now is not seeing this post before I started working on my next two personal guns that have the Heinie Magwell on them already. It figures, once I dedicated myself to them, I see something new and improved.

Now, I have to order a new frame and build me another one - THANKS STAN!! Like a college student can afford all this! My mother (also my financial advisor - who advises me all the time that I have no money) is going to strangle me since I have a delicate balance between tuition and the occasional bar outing. Maybe I can talk Dad into building another pistol, but if I do, Mom is going to strangle him too since I am already building 3 for him right now. Either way, there WILL be a Stan Chen/Legacy magwell on the next future build.

Put me down for one on Rain Check Stan, let me get a little ways into my summer break when the finances open up just a little.

Take care, it looks great, and now that you raised the bar - what can we expect next??

Bob

As far as a name - how about something simple - like "New and Improved Super Cool - Next Best Magwell - That Works Great, Looks Great and is a Must Have so You Should Have One Too" model.


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