ltwguns.com

This is an excellent question! I would love to see it answered if anyone happens to get in a conversation with Ion bond.

Obviously I'm not a frequent poster on the board, but I'm sure glad I started this thread.

I've exchanged email and talked on the phone with Ryan, I am shipping my LW Commander to him on Monday. If this finish is as nice as I am expecting and hoping, I'm sure I will be sending more his way.

Thank you for your feed back Mr Harrison! I think Im going with this finish on my next Colt build.

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The Spirit of God hath made me, the breath of the Almighty hath given me life

I have been reading on this finish forever, but am still undecided if to use it on my upcoming Burton build. I rust guns by looking at them and simply cannot have a blued carry gun. I look forward to seeing what data Ned collects when he gets all mad scientist and methodic about the corrosion properties.

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Best regards,
Brady Miller
www.monkeyedge.com
The Finest in Custom Knives and Gear

I'm still on the fence about Ionbond and E-Finish by EGW. Posts like this are surely helping me make an informed decision. Thanks to all the gunsmiths who freely give their advice.

I would be interested in the results also. I've "heard" that particular rumor and its always had me wondering. In this day and age isn't it nice to have this many options in finishes....almost enough to make a guys head spin.

I have heard many good things about E-Treat by EGW, but it cannot be used on aluminum, so it was not an option for this pistol.

My pistol smith Steve Morrison, told me that he thinks E-Treat is Melonite

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The Spirit of God hath made me, the breath of the Almighty hath given me life

Unsure if it is or not, there was some discussion here about it when it first came out. For a melonite finish you can check out http://www.coalcreekarmory.com/. They ran a special one time for the 1911 boards at a reduce cost....alot of guns turned out purty. I'd like to try it out on my ruger sp101 if they would do a revolver.

FYI - Coal Creek Armory's web site suggests that they will work on revolvers.

I really look forward to the results of the informal testing on these finishes.

He's right. More specifically, it's Melonite QPQ. If I'm not mistaken, QPQ stands for Quench, Polish, Quench. I don't remember exactly what the functional difference is between the QPQ process and the standard process, but there is a difference.

I have two pistols finished in E-Treat. One is my daily carry piece and the other is my duty pistol (which gets carried only once a week or so). The daily carry piece has been carried almost every day since being finished over a year ago. There are no signs of wear or corrosion. For me, the finish has been a perfect choice.

I am interested in the IonBond product. I like the fact that you can have polished flats with it if you so choose.

Mark

I had a pistol coated with Diamondblack - boron carbide - by Bodycote (precursor to IonBond), in '02. It doesn't see a lot of holster use, mostly weekend IPSC and IDPA matches, but it's been in and out of both leather and kydex for over six years, and there is no holster wear. When a "scratch" does appear, it's something that's been deposited on the surface, and will usually clean up with solvent, or steel wool. Because the surface is so hard, it requires careful preparation. My gun was done when bc was still very new as a gun finish. If the surface has any sort of rough, blasted treatment prior to coating, it will act like a rasp, afterwards. My gun was prepped by a 'smith who was very familiar with bluing and plated finishes. The sides of the slide were polished bright, and everything else was matte. Those matte surfaces caused some problems. Shooting resulted in heavy deposits of copper on the feedramp, and brass on the disconnector rail and breechface. The gun became sluggish as the deposits increased. I reluctanctly polished the finish off those surfaces, and the gun has since run all but perfectly through ~10,000 rounds. There is also wear in areas where two coated surfaces rub together. My gun looks almost new on the outside, except where the ambi and slide stop rub on the frame. There, the contact surfaces are down to bare metal. The slide and frame rails are likewise bright - the wear in these areas is more like a blued surface than one that's been plated. I suspect IonBond has improved the process over the years, and they know how to prep the metal to avoid some of the problems that I've had. Of course, it cost twice as much as it did then, too. It is not especially rust-resistant. Five years ago, they were working on pre-plating the bare metal before the bc coating was applied, to make the surface more rust-resistant. Again, IonBond may have addressed that issue. I treat all my guns as if they are going to rust, regardless of the material or finish, so I'm not disappointed in repect to its rust-resistance. I just wanted a black finish that wouldn't show holster wear or scratches, and got it.

Thanks for the comments, Rick. I'm really looking forward to getting my pistol back from Ryan.

I am concerned about the corrosion resistance. Has anybody had “normal” hardchrome laid down THEN send it to ION bond to create the uber-finish?

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Best regards,
Brady Miller
www.monkeyedge.com
The Finest in Custom Knives and Gear

The Uber-finish would actually be IonBond DLC over electroless nickel. You'd get your maximum corrosion resistance that way.

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shop.HarrisonCustom.com
www.HarrisonCustom.com

The grand essentials to happiness in this life are something to do, something to love and something to hope for.

I agree, John. Last I knew, Ion Bond said they would and could and have put W-DLC over electroless Ni.

SatisfiedPig, LTW #4 had hard chrome under the Ion Bond W-DLC finish (W-DLC is Tungsten DLC, W being the symbol for tungsten).

Ryans letter was interesting to me, as I had heard that IonBond was not using chrome. The fact that they are makes sense to me though, since the old Body Cote company used to employ Darrell Lewis, and they DID pre-plate with chrome to avoid rust. Since Darrell has moved on to Ion Bond he has the knowledge of previous coatings on guns to give him some experience to fall back on. I've been staying away from the Ion Bond DLC as I was told that it didn't have the flash chrome base. Now that I know differently, I'm gonna be re-thinking this.

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Don Williams
http://www.theactionworks.com
http://www.ltwguns.com

Updates?

I received my Garthwaite built Commander LW .38 Super back from IonBond this afternoon. I like the look of the finish, but haven't had a chance to carry or shoot the pistol yet so no report on wear. My only complaint is I wanted the pistol finished completely matte/satin, but the flats of the slide were polished, really not a big deal and obviously just some miscommunication between Ryan and myself. I'll get some pics taken and post them soon.

Rather than start a whole new post I figured i'd ask this here.......

Are there any color options with Ion Bond ?

Yes - I know some type of Desert Tan is available, and there may be others.

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I will never forget you Lou......February 21, 2009

John Ralston
5 SHOT LEATHER, LLC - Finely Crafted Custom Handgun Leather

http://www.5ShotLeather.com

I didn't know any other colors were available.

I will say that Ryan has been very good to work with, what little I have. More coming soon though.

I had a 1911 over the weekend that was W-DLC'd..... it was absolutely perfect.

Had some work done by CCA - great guys to work - with a little slow, but wonderful customer service. With regard to the Melonite QPQ, it seems to be an excellent finish with regard to corrosion resistence and looks tremendous in my opinion. While I tend to prefer good ol' bluing on my guns, I have inspected up close Melonized guns from both CCA and Drake's Customs Guns and have been very impressed. While I certainly would disagree with the wisdom of Mr. Harrison or Ned on what the ultimate finish would be, if I were going for more of a hard use finish it would be Melonite for me.

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He who lives in harmony with himself lives in harmony with the universe.
-Marcus Aurelius

You would probably know better than just about anyone Ned. I thought I remembered there being some talk about a possible dark earth color for the LTW#4 gun though. This could have been a whole different finish for all I know.

Just figured i'd ask, wouldn't mind hearing they had a nice gunmetal gray

Nothing wrong with black thats for sure. I certainly love it on my Springfield Operator and it seems to be holding up insanely well so far. Unfortunately I don't have nearly enough rounds down the tube yet to say much about it.

Here is a couple of pics for grins of when it was new.......

http://img215.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... 005ik3.jpg

http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=opsideby3.jpg

Maybe when i'm not so lazy i'll try to get some updated pics of it torn down to show a few finish wear spots.....yes, torn down is the only way to find any

Any updates, gents? Or do they all resist corrosion so well it's time to get medieval on these parts?

I was so hoping for some facts rather than the usual internet cousin's brother's uncle knew someone who said the corrosion resistance of X finish stunk while y was wonderful.

I'm still gathering samples to test and am waiting on Black T.

_________________
shop.HarrisonCustom.com
www.HarrisonCustom.com

The grand essentials to happiness in this life are something to do, something to love and something to hope for.

No updates?

Diamond like carbon (highly sp3 carbon depositied via PECVD or PVD) will not "corrode" as the traditional definition has it. It is an extremely hard thin film coating used most commonly on drilling equipment for some 20 years. I would imagine the chrome is used as an adhesion layer. With chrome, DLC, TiN, TiCN, etc, you generally are placing a self passivating (corrosion resistant) coating over a easy to corrode material, such as carbon steel. Thus, the coating, and therefore underlying material, won't corrode. However, if the coating is not applied correctly, and pin-holes are present, you will develop pitting corrosion problems as the base steel becomes cathodic (it is the anode) to the anodic coating (cathode). This eventually leads to significant pitting, and peeling of the chrome layer. Pitting corrosion quickly becomes crevice corrosion, which is worse. The small size of the pin holes generally accellerates this phenomena, increasing corrosion rates (small anode - big cathode).

In essence, all the good hard coatings will serve to effectively inhibit corrosion very effectively, provided they are applied properly. The polymer (epoxy/BMI/cyanate ester) coatings typically do better because you dont have the large cathode (the polymer is electronically non conductive) to contend with.

Fun stuff!

Thank you for the additional information!

Does anyone here know if IonBond can be applied to a titanium frame? Thanks in advance for any information.

Best regards,
Jeffro