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Is Nighthawk Custom capable of putting out a piece that is beyond what they normally put out? I have a 10-8 and Talon. Nice guns. I want an Heirloom but can't afford it. A Nighthawk dealer I know gives me 12 month layaway and I know Nighthawk will let me do more of a custom piece than they usually do. Something more geared toward an Heirloom piece. Are they capable of this or should I hold off ?

Hold off. There is no comparison.

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"I'd rather die on my feet than keep living on my knees." - Emiliano Zapata, Mexican Revolutionary

Why not sell the Night Hawks and use the money towards an Heirloom custom?

IMO, I would rather have one from Heirloom than many semi-custom production pistols.

HTH,
John

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NRA Endowment Life Member
I may be big, old, and slow, but so are the ball rounds in my 1911.

I have thought of selling both but I don't know. That would leave me with no handguns until my Heirloom was done and would yield me about $4000.
$1000 for a Cold series 70 repro would bring me down to 3k. i'd still need another $1500 on top of that 3k to afford a best grade. ouch.
my other thought was to sell one nighthawk and send the other one to them to improve.

I your going to do a custom, why not start with unfit frame and slide with a custom serial number from caspian. Of course you would have to live in a free state.

I don't. I live in New York. I've decided to keep the nighthawks and start saving for a colt series 70. i'll send it to Jason when funds allow.

You could get a base gun and send it in to reserve your spot and use the time to collect the funds for the build. I did that with my High Power. I sold a lot of guns during the waiting period and had it paid in full when the time came. I still got updates I would like to do and will be selling on Ebay again. I sold six guns and most sold for more than I expected. I was surprised at which ones sold first. I sent my WW2 ones to a dealer to sell.

When your Heirloom is completed, you will end up owning 3 full-sized 1911s. "Need" and "want" are very elusive terms in regards to firearms ownership, but would you really need all three of them? In my personal experience, once you have more than 2 of pistols in same general category (i.e. compact, full-sized, pocket etc.), something gets "sentenced" to an imprisonment inside of a gun safe. Meaning the gun doesn't get shot enough or at all - which is a very sad thing, in my opinion - plus you have substantial funds tied up in guns that you can't shoot enough.
My personal choice is to own not more than two full-sized 1911s, two best 1911s I can afford. So, if I were in your place, I'd trade one of NHs, probably Talon, for a nice base gun + cash, or nice base gun + 9 mm pistol (unless you already have one) for more affordable practice and back-up solution if remaining NH breaks down. Obviously, you can trade it after you get your Heirloom, but it'll lose more value.
My $0.02.

Is a new 70 series necessary considering how little Jason Burton uses of the original gun and the best grade covers anything I could think of such as welding the frames rails and straightening the lines. You should be able to find a used original for less than a grand especially since they are not selling on gun broker currently.

Is it all the same if I use a springfield mil-spec as my base gun or are they inferior to the colt? I was informed this morning by Mr. Harrison that, if I wanted a polished blued finish, get the Colt. Forgot to ask him about the integrity of the springfield vs the colt.

Richard,
I have been down this road before so I have first hand experience. You could easily sell both NH's on gunbroker and get a fair price, even used ones command decent prices. If you are going for nicely blued and polished go with a Colt 70 series, the NRM's are widely available. Older 70 Colts are available on GB and you can get them for less than a new if you look often and are persistent. Almost all the NRM 70's I have seen require a weld up of frame, also the spring tunnel in the slide will be unfortunately off center. The best you can do is either look in person at them which might be hard to do, or buy one and take your chances. Your other option would be to use an 80 Series, from all the ones I have seen they have nicely tighter frame to slide fits and the spring tunnels on the slide are centered (better than the 70's). Springfield would be my 2nd choice, it too is a forged frame but most of them are marked under the dust cover with the foreign country in dot matrix fashion and might not be the best candidate for a full build for asthetic purposes. However you can find used and new Springfield NM prefix serial numbered Govt models (without the dot matrix foreign country marking) but they are random and there seems to be no rhyme or reason. If the Springfield route - first would be the Mil-Spec NM prefix model, ie front and rear sights lend the pistol to a bit more to customization. Or a Loaded NM model knowing that it comes with beavertail, Novak style rear and dovetail front already. The SA WW prefixed guns seem to all be marked under the dustcover.
Hope this helps, send me a PM if you need to discuss further or if you want some pictures of the above referenced items.
Regards

As much as your budgetary calculations may "intimidate" you, I think you're inadvertently/unintentionally on the right track... I would suggest buying a "fair condition" Colt 70, not a repro--they can be found in decent shape for $500-700. All you'll really want is the slide and frame without deep blemishes; your gunsmith will suggest you replace most of the small parts anyway (or at least, he should), and after all the work is finished, the gun will need refinishing anyway, so a pristine specimen isn't required.

For such a project as you contemplate, the Colt 70 is really the only choice. Look at it this way... this is (theoretically) a once-in-a-lifetime expenditure. You're thinking about a ~$4500 budget for your custom gun. When it's in your hand, after all that waiting and money, come back to this website and view the other customs threads. Will you have this thought?---"I spent ~$4500. At $4500, I should have spent an extra 3, 4, 500, "whatever", dollars and paid for the 'dream gun' w/ the Colt rollmark. $500 is only X months' wages; I shoulda waited." If that's you, then wait the little longer.

I know this is long and wordy, but here's my last example. I know a guy who's been looking for a specific collector gun in LNIB conditon. He saw one in the late 1990's and balked at the price at which it was listed ($1350); it was $250 over his psychological budget. He told me recently "I should have just paid it. I hadn't seen one in that condition ever, and it'll be another 20 years before I do." Some regrets last longer than the money.

This is just a personal thing for me, but I'm not a fan of the huge Springfield rollmarks on the slide. Other than that, I think SA's are a good base gun for a build. If I were doing one on a Springer base gun I'd have them surface ground off. Also, one of the problems we can encounter on any of the base guns such as the loaded models, is the beavertail fit, as it has been pre-shaped to fit the mfrs. grip safety,and may not be compatible with your chosen piece. Yes, it can be welded up and re-fit, but better results can be obtained by starting with a frame that hasn't been pre-cut. Best,

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Don Williams
http://www.theactionworks.com
http://www.ltwguns.com

I've located 2 colt series, so I can choose. I'll sell a nighthawk for now and will be sending the colt to jason once it arrives. If I need money when she's finished, I'll sell the other nighthawk to fund the rest and buy another series 70 and some ammo.

Richard,

You'll never regret choosing a Colt Series 70 for your base gun. If you have the chance, though, inspect your candidates carefully. While it's true that the cost of straightening lines and such is included in your build, the truer the lines on the base gun are, the better. Pay particular attention to the fit and symmetry of the dust cover as viewed from the front of the gun. If you find yourself looking at a lopsided front end, you'll know what the expression "Friday afternoon Colt" means.

And good on you for keeping your two 1911s that you have now. Selling guns, short of generating funds for emergencies, is always a bad idea. I've never sold one that I didn't regret selling later.

It's just money. We can always earn a little more, and save a little longer, to get what we really want. And that, in the end, will make you happier than any shortcuts.

Just pray that Jason doesn't get run over by a bus while you're saving.

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NRA Endowment Member

Good plan

As a reference regarding your Colt search... a well used Series 70 Colt is going to run 800+ here in CA... a NIB NRM Colt 70 will run 1250+ if you're lucky. I think I've located a suitable original Series 70 finally, but we'll see about the details in person. If it doesn't pan out I may go the Series 80 route. Best of luck to you, and hopefully you'll be able to hold onto the Nightawks too.

Well I found a nice looking series 70 for $625 shipped. Sent funds. Should have it next week. Trying to sell my 10-8 on 3 different sites. No bites. Its weird because that's the one everyone says not to sell, but noone wants. I'm going to keep my Talon. I'll get this project started soon. Since I'm keeping my Talon, I'm going to either save longer or spend closer to 2k-3k plus base gun. 4k-5k is too much right now. In 2 yrs I can order a signature grade.

Richard, PM sent, Mike.

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Clyde, You've got 3 pistols and only one arm for Christ sake....
I just don't want to get killed for lacka shootin back.
"Unforgiven"

For what it's worth...

Get the gun you want, from the builder you want. Disregard price and time. Per hour or per job, custom gunsmiths are one of the best bargains in America these days, and their prices are only going to increase as their costs do. In every career field, those at the top of the scale earn proportionately more than those at lower levels of skill and performance - in sales, medicine, finance, sports, entertainment, etc. It's all the same. The gap is not so great in our field, and great talent is within reach.

As far as waiting lists go, there's a reason why it takes a long time to get a gun built. The best guys are busy, even in this economy.

In the end, you get what you pay for.

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Heirloom Precision, LLC.
480-804-1911

Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing.

TR

I have to support what Ted wrote. I retail the custom 1911 and have for quite a few years. I make enough off of retail to pay overhead and pay for one nice toy a year. Thats it. I have learned from many, many, many, many, many, many, clients that did not get what they wanted the first time is how I get a bunch of trade offers. Most of my Consignments are funding the next piece of work.

So to keep me or those like me from making money off of you, take your time and get what you want the first time, not the 4th, 5th or 6th time.

I am very fortunate to have seen some of the best craftsmen on earth and the work they do pass through my little retail operation. I cannot own them all but I do get to possess them for a while. I also have just been extremely fortunate to have a Chuck Rogers due by the end of the year due to one client who I really owe a thank you. His wait is over 5 years. The last Chen took about 7.

I have several pieces on order with the best makers out there and there is a reason for a wait. My tag line says it all.

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Be safe and keep the brass flying

Terry Peters

Do your research but you get what you pay for front end or back end
http://www.pt-partners.com
@ptpartners_tx

Agreed. I sold a few pistols to get my first Heirloom Precision and I do not regret it one bit. Now I have to get the courage up to carry it.

Chris