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Ned. On your mention of #4 Buck That is the load I keep in the 870 by the bedside. Twenty seven 22 caliber bullet at 15 to 20 feet is quite devastating for inside and at that short range. Standard room size. Second round is same. Third round round is double O and last is a slug. Just kind of thinking about the scenario. Close at first and then as the threat takes cover moves away just a bit more control at my point.

_________________
Be safe and keep the brass flying

Terry Peters

Do your research but you get what you pay for front end or back end
http://www.pt-partners.com
@ptpartners_tx

No custom 1911's were harmed in the making of this post.

Got hit by a tornado Aug. 6 ('24). Had it been another 100 yards north I think the whole place would have been destroyed-- some houses in the path were totaled. As it was, most trees in the yard were uprooted, broken off, or had large branches come down. Damage to house and shop were almost nothing in light of what it could have / should have been. Gonna set the shop schedule back maybe a month. not sure if insurance will help with the cleanup as the adjuster is not responding.

Got off pretty easy and getting lots of much-needed exercise, running the chain saw on some things that have to be moved NOW, not if and when the adjuster says OK to hire it done.

BTW I have re-posted the pics in this 2004 thread about two early Hi Powers I did, one of which I'm told now belongs to Bill Wilson.
https://forum.ltwguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 3263#p3263

Glad you made it through without any major damage. I've worked tornado and hurricane recovery many times and seen lots of total destruction.

Ned, glad everyone is safe and there was minimal damage. Mother Nature can be pretty unforgiving at her worst.

On a separate note, those HP's are something... I think Bill Wilson's son has the one you are referring to.

B

Oh yeah. I visited WC in 2015 and Ryan treated me very well.

Ned,

Those BHPs are cool. "Shallowmyds"? Oh my.

And the earlier photo in this thread, the Oglesby & Oglesby? The checkering that was soldered on was an aftermarket thing that was around sometime in the 1990s I think. instead of checkering, just epoxy or solder on the checkered plate.

The really OCD types would mill out the frame and solder/weld the checkered plate in place.

The whole thing struck me as way too much work to avoid too much work, if you follow.

Ned glad you survived the storm with minimum damage and I agree with everyone else those High Powers are amazing.

_________________
And this eternal resting place Is known as Fiddlers' Green.

Thanks, Dep.

Like I didn't have enough on my plate, the tornado cleanup is eating up some time. Still getting some work done in the shop but this is the kind of thing that even if one could afford to pay to have it all done, there are still some time-burning tasks related to it that can only be done by-- me. All the while being most thankful that this darned thing didn't take everything and kill us.

It's comically frustrating when you have an important thing to do and you can't do it until you do three unimportant things first-- like, you have to find the tool to do the thing but it's buried under other tools and to get to the other tools you first have to remove a bunch of branches and foliage-- to get to the tools for removing branches and foliage

And I find I have been slacking on the woodchuck jihad. In the lawn shed there is a hole in the floor and a full wheelbarrow of dry, dusty dirt all over everything inside. Give them an inch and they'll take a cubic yard!

A couple months ago I experimented with coloring with heat. Not discovering anything new, just kinda blindly trying this and that, purposely not researching it first, for the heck of it. I did check some charts on what heat brings what color, and I had talked to my heat treat shop a couple years ago about maybe doing a complete gun. They were reluctant to try it (but not because "guns"). Well.... we got a new oven and that was what got me going again. I did a mag tube for an 870-- blasted bare, into the oven at 450...... got the most beautiful color but wanted it a little darker, and took it to 490. This gave a darker, warm bronze. One thing I do know about color from heat, it is not durable at all and will come off even with light handling. We used to get S7 tools steel back from heat treat about this same color, and it came off easily. So for this mag tube I had an old aerosol can of clear Brownells Baking Lacquer. I shot the tube with it and back in the oven at 325 for 20 minutes or so. looks great!

A soft-spoken but very interesting man passes.

I met him maybe 25 years ago at a family gathering. Not my family, that of a good friend and his wife, the wife is this man's niece. We were invited because these are hospitable people and they considered us worthy of being at the gathering.... itself an honor. I just happened into a conversation with him, at the moment just another face at the party. I took a liking to him right away, me being always appreciative of good conversation. I noticed that he was gentle, he was quiet, but it just seemed like he had interesting things to say. I could not tell you what we talked about but it was good, and I stuck with him a while rather than "making the rounds". Later when the crowd had thinned, my friend asked him to tell his Vietnam story. It was a fantastic story that I thought at first must surely be about someone else. He was telling someone else's story, right? Or did I understand correctly that I was in the presence of someone this actually happened to? And, had interesting conversation with for the better part of an hour, and he didn't lead the conversation with, or to, this? Incredible humility, and yet when he started the story, he told it with gusto and pride. it's quite a story. Here's a recent pic of this amazing survivor:

And the breath-taking story from fifty-five years ago: http://thanksformyeverything.org/bio.html

Jim DeVoss was shot down during a bombing mission in Vietnam. He had to choose between ejecting at WAY over the max ejection speed or riding his F-105 to a fireball on the ground. The story is on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPsd_nmSGV0

I only saw him one other time, when my friend who had me at his house that day passed. Not claiming to have been "pals" with Jim DeVoss, only that, one day I met a quiet and gentle man with an interesting and inspiring story.

He truly sounds like an amazing person. Your story about meeting him and the conversation reminds me of the quote often associated with General Swarzkopf, "We live among giants". Our world is definitely a better place because of men like Lt. DeVoss and those who share his story.

_________________
And this eternal resting place Is known as Fiddlers' Green.

In case of interest, regarding the Kimber Series II passive firing pin system, AKA the Swartz system. In my 1911 class I always do a drop test with a "Series 70" style gun, that is, one having no kind of passive firing pin safety. It's pretty easy to get one to fire a primed case by dropping it muzzle-down from head height.

The Kimber Series II system has a known issue. The passive firing pin block is moved out of the way, freeing the firing pin, by depressing the grip safety. The grip safety's other, and original, function is to block movement of the trigger. In most of them (in my testing at least), the grip safety will allow trigger movement and thus hammer drop before the firing pin block is out of the way, resulting in a misfire.

Another aspect of the Swartz system that I have wondered about is, wouldn't that same muzzle-down drop that causes the firing pin to contact the primer by firing pin inertia, also cause the grip safety to pivot forward, under its own inertia, thus moving the firing pin block out of the way? One thing to note about the factory Kimber grip safeties is that they are MIM'd and as with other MIM'd grip safeties, they are cored out meaning unnecessary material is simply not there. It's not a bad thing, in fact I will sometimes take some weight out of a bar stock grip safety since there is indeed a lot of metal there that does nothing. Could that lighter-weight grip safety improve the chances of the Swartz system not being defeated in a muzzle-down drop? I would think it would be a contributor, maybe along with the grip safety tine of the sear spring bend-adjusted to "stout".

In a class a few weeks ago at the School Of The American Rifle (SOTAR), after doing my regular drop test and successfully firing a primer, I had the chance to drop-test two Kimber Series II pistols. Both had failed the timing test; that is, both could misfire if the grip safety was pushed in partway allowing trigger movement but not far enough to unblock the firing pin's movement.

Neither fired in the drop test with 3-4 attempts each. The primer was examined after each drop and in no case was there any evidence of firing pin contact. Good! But, testing variables:

1.If the passive firing pin safety system was adjusted to allow the gun to fire as soon as the grip safety allows trigger movement, would the result be different;

2. If the grip safety had been replaced with a barstock, machined, full- weight piece would it be different, and:

3. The floor I was dropping on to in this case was a hard rubber floor of interlocking tiles about 5/16 thick. Would a concrete floor have made enough of a difference?

I have tested the grip safety inertia question on the bench, a little, and in slo-mo I can see that yes, the grip safety is subject to Newton's laws of motion..... I could see it move under inertia. It was crude testing, not definitive other than proving that "a body at rest tents to stay at rest".

Burrs. I don’t think I’ve seen a 1911 that didn’t has at least some burrs inside it. Some have pretty prominent ones out the outside, that kinda matters, when they are there waiting to rip you. On the inside, not such an issue. I mean every single one has burrs at some point in its manufacture, it’s a matter of which ones “get through” to you, the end user.

Burrs are just a natural by product of machining, pretty much unavoidable. Some that are left inside most guns don’t really hurt anything. Others may affect function, or eventually drop off and go find a place where they can tie things up.

The first pic shows (on the left) a frame not quite all the way through the manufacturing process, burrs aplenty. They would have been removed eventually. On the right is a vintage Colt. The rest of the pics are inside this beauty, showing some burrs that have been there for decades without causing any issue, but, they gotta go. This will happen in part of a process I do to every custom 1911 where all internal burrs will be removed, knife edges addressed, and all edges / surfaces looked at and smoothed, radiused, filleted, stoned, filed, whatever, as needed. It’s crack prevention too. There are some areas where cracks are known to start, and some where they are less likely but you’ll see it once in a while on high-milers. I do what I can to reduce the chances of these areas become cracks.

Note in this first one, the odd angled cuts to the back wall of the mag chute just above the trigger bow cuts. I've never seen that before still contemplating "why" and if it affects anything. I know sometimes that area gets bent inward by the broaching of the trigger bow cuts-- is it possible this is a remedy to that?

That angle cut is a perfect example of the conundrum production engineers are faced with. OK, how many broached mag wells end up with the flanges bent enough to require correction? How much time does that take? What is the time/cost of adding an extra fixture (pre-CNC) or instruction line (CNC) to make the cut, and lop off any bent flanges?

It reminds me of a tale I was told at Brownells. they ship thousands of packages a day. Any improvement in packaging efficiency is valued, and the employee who thinks of it is rewarded. One woman came up with an improvement on her own time that saved Brownells so much, they gave her a car. Then, when they realized just how much they were saving, they told her "Your kids go to college on us."

Efficiencies matter. And working for a company that appreciates it (Brownells, not so much Colt, apparently) is a gift.

Well here's something I've been anticipating now for several years. Another manufacturer of 1911's has shamelessly appropriated FRAG (now renamed to Original F-ing FRAG) without attribution or credit. Honestly, I would have throught Kimber might have been the first. Springfield Armory and Wilson Combat must be furious , along with a few 'smiths who struggle to create their own signature features. Or, "don't struggle" I guess is more like it. If they now feel like their custom work has become "less custom", if they feel like their work has been cheapened, well, I understand that very well.

My thread "On Originality" from 2019:
https://forum.ltwguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 473#p68473

Well I knew that SA copied FRAG (or darned similar) as well as some no name grip maker selling them on Ebay. Someone else?

First it was STI-- after me discussing it with the CEO of the moment in the context of them maybe doing some signature guns for me, with FRAG. Me assuming that it would be safe to have such discussions-- wrong. We had quite a few exchanges, then comms fell off and next thing I knew, they had "invented" FRAG. Then SA--- again, after discussions, direct talks between me and SA management about me helping them with a frontstrap treatment (suggesting FRAG)-- well I sure did help them I guess! So with these two anyway, there's no saying they coincidentally came up with the same thing. WC, not sure who they took it from-- me directly, or STI, or SA....? And now, it's amazing! Kimber has invented FRAG! Man, where do they get these great ideas?

I mean I get it, I'm a big boy, people see something that sells well, they want to sell it too. Industry works that way sometimes but my previous experiences dealing with people in the firearms industry was all scruples, honesty, and integrity-- even with regard to FRAG. VZ, Guncrafter, and Dan Wesson all came to me like gentlemen and inquired about an agreement-- and we arrived at agreements.

A couple 1911 smiths (that I know of) have also "invented" FRAG. It's very disappointing, both guys do great-looking work. I assume the guns run but the quality of the machining and finishing is top-notch. So-- to me, guys that can do that work and do it so well, why would they limit themselves to directly copying the work of others, and present it as their own? Others, plural. It's not just my work they are cloning. As I said in On Originality, put in the work and make your name on your own style, not on "look how well I can do what someone else does." These guys seem more than smart enough to come up with their own ideas-- hence the disappointment on my end. I would have liked to see what they could have imagined and put in steel.

The 1911 I'm on now, has a few special challenges. One is, two barrels. I mean, you can bing bang boom-fit a barrel and it will be fine. I just don't do it that way, doing it my way is kinda tedious but it's what satisfies me. If doing it for two separate guns, let's say it's "X". doing two barrels for the same gun, it's X times two.

And before I even got to that, well, I ordered Kart barrels of course, a bull barrel in Super .38 and one in 9mm. They came in a conical format, which to me is a big no-go. That shape allows the front of the barrel to dip as the slide moves to the rear, which can lead to the rear being biased up and- sometimes-- reliability issues. I sent them back and requested to trade them for the now more common style (I think), a straight cylinder but with clearance on top to allow it to bump up into battery. I was informed Fred thinks that could be detrimental to accuracy; I don't think so----- in a .45 pistol... but then I'm not Fred Kart. So they came a straight cylinder. There is nothing to be done with that other than either turn it into a cone or the other, top-clearance shape:

So, the preferred top clearance it was. The doing of it was not too bad, although the room for error was minimal. I mean a place doing them by the batch, probably no big deal. For me the setup was long and arduous. Then came the fluting, using the same setup more or less. But then another biggie is trying to get two barrels pointed in the same direction. This involved a lot of back and forth, not fitting one and then matching the fit on the other as much as creeping up on the fit one, then the other, then back, then back again…. Can you really get two barrels to shoot to the same POI at 28 yards? In the several, but not many, that I have done, I’ve had pretty good luck. Better I think than just fitting one and then the other, independently and hoping for the best. Some barrels, or barrel fits, in .45, will shoot mild 155’s, mid-range 200’s and +P 230 JHP’s to POI’s that are within two inches or so at 28, that’s always nice. Now we’re doubling that requirement, no, that hope, that 115 FMJ’s and 147 JHP’s in 9mm, and .38 ACP’s and .38 Super +P’s, shoot to the same POI. Fixed sights on the gun—gotta try.

Special challenge #2, Conamyds on the trigger. Done, came out nice. That’s the first time I’ve done them on a trigger.

#3, make the magwell .250 thick instead of .300. Not sure why that request but I thought, why not? Since I make them all from scratch anyway, I don’t think there’s an issue. I’ve been making magwells out of the same block of Crucible prehard 4130 (or is it 4140, not sure now) steel for many, many years—there are several left in this chunk. I thought it was cool to use Crucible steel for them because at the time I got it, Crucible was a part of Colt Industries.

The above-mentioned barrels being bull barrels, there is not a bushing to retain a recoil spring plug, so a “reverse plug” has to be used. To keep it from shooting out the front, there has to be something….. a flange at its rear or a step-up in its diameter. Both require a mod to the slide. Generally speaking I’d rather use the diameter step, but getting a receptor feature in the slide’s spring tunnel is a little more difficult. I don’t know how other guys do it, and, maybe someone offers a special cutter for it, but as often happens I find it advantageous to just make my own. The one I have used for years is simple enough, one piece with a bit of carbide silver soldered to it, works well. But the setup is a little time consuming and the process a little technique-intensive. And…. in the most recent use of it, the carbide chipped. Time to re-solder and regrind, with the cutter ground to protrude just the right amount.
Or just make a new one to a design that has been in my head for years. Just that…. iot was gonna be time-consuming to make, that’s a downside. Upside, once the tool is done, the process is easy to set up and quick to do, more foolproof, less boo-boo prone.

Here’s the cut in question:


And the new tool. The old tool was one piece; this one is seven pieces but I can have the job done to perfection in the time it would take to set it up the old way.

Looking forward to seeing this one!

An inset, recessed retention lip on the reverse plug? I'm not sure that a snappy salute is sufficient.

Someone was offering those plugs years ago and they are probably still available, I think with a full-length guide rod originally. I could probably buy the plug I need but so many aftermarket parts these days are not made from real-deal alloy steel. I'm making it from a 3/4" socket head cap screw, good tough stuff. The other aspect is, the part of this plug that will fill the gap between the plug and the bull barrel at the front, I want control over that so it's a gap-free fit as much as possible.

I've made more of the flanged type over the years, there again I make them so I know what they're made of. For those I use a 1/2" cap screw and the head of the screw becomes the flange, so I get the benefit of the grain flow that occurs when the head is cold-formed, which is part of what makes these screws so strong.

Surely you jest!

Delete...

Bill, I tried to delete those for ya and failed. I think you can do it though. Go "edit" and look around for "delete this post".

Recoil spring plunger, some more pics. Drill and ream to .453, then go in with a flat bottomed drill and finish the depth to maximize spring space.




Today, the front lug / space filler and whatever else I can fit in.

I am continually impressed with the craftsmanship shown in this thread, wow.

_________________
And this eternal resting place Is known as Fiddlers' Green.

Getting there:


I made it as close to drop-in as I could but... left a few thou here and there for some fitting, simply because the slide features it fits into are not perfect. The vertical width between barrel and spring plug-- that would have a wide-open tolerance because it's just air space, a passage for the barrel foot. It doesn't have to be a perfect fit to anything and in a normal bushing'd-barrel format, it is covered by the bushing. So it doesn't matter much, until, that is, you're fitting a plug like this. The slot was wider in front by maybe .005, so it had to be filed more parallel. Otherwise the gap-filling area would be at least .005 smaller than the gap when it was in position. I wasn't gonna go to this much trouble to live with too much gap there. Gap or no gap matters not at all function-wise but with the barrel and the plug diameters being a good fit, I wanted this area to look good, too. In this pic it is still long by about .035, needs to be cut to be flush with the end of the slide.

I may have this pic posted elsewhere in an older thread but I just ran across it unexpectedly while looking at some older pics.

This was a gun that as of 2006, had been fairly recently worked on by Jim Hogue. The owner in CA wanted some more work done to it.... I changed the MSH to one of mine with the forward step and checkered it to match the front strap, hi-gripped the front strap around the existing Hogue checkering, checkered the memory pad on the grip safety, opened up the magwell of course, and probably a few other things. I thought the Hogue work on it was fine. I mean look at that squared trigger guard and how the checkering is wrapped from the bottom to the front-- that was a lot of fine, high-risk work.



Another oldy, 2004 or so. I talked to the owner a few days ago.... he still has it and informed that the plan is for him to be buried with it. When I talk to him again I will suggest that it be put in an absolutely airtight stainless box so that it's still good in 3-400 years

The start of a weld-on magwell. The squared-up, roughed-in block was left over from the last one and is good for two magwells. I need to get them separated….. there is no metal-cutting bandsaw here so I use a slitting saw in the mill. It actually works out well, I can make a cut more precise than with a bandsaw. And I don’t have to give up forty precious square feet for a saw that I really don’t have a need for. The mainspring housing is my own, with the forward step as I have been doing since the late 80’s. It’s made with some extra material so I can get a really nice fit. I really think a lot of gun parts these days are not made from the kind of steel they should be; doing it myself I know exactly what I’m getting. As I’ve mentioned before, the magwells have been coming out of the same block of Crucible prehard 4130 for some years now.


Sawed most of the way through. Nice fit on the frame, see ya soon Mr. Weldermann.