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So among the pistolsmiths I have 2 questions out of curiosity:

1. What's your choice for an 45ACP extractor?
2. Why?

Seems like a lot of pistolsmiths like Wilson and Brown. But how about the units from Nowlin, EGW, Caspian, CMC etc?

Thanks!

Will

I work on my own guns as a hobby. My choice for a 45ACP extractor is my internal extractor on my Clackamas 5" Kimber, and the external extractor on my brand-spankin' 3" Kimber Ultra Carry.

Why you ask? Because they work, and work well. Interestingly enough, I've never had a FTF or FTE with the little 3" Ultra, but I've only got about 300 rounds through it.

It's probably not the scientific explanation you were looking for, but it IS data, non-the-less. One of these days, I'll take them apart and see if I can identify specifics that seem to make them work well.

Marlin

Will,
The others have more experience but I will chime in. The reason I like the Wilson's is consistency. They seem to fit well from gun to gun and leave enough outside the rear of the slide so they can be fitted. The hook is nicely defined and the entire length of the part extends past the breech face far enough to ensure proper extraction. Kind of a crude way of saying it, but you get the idea.

Having said that, I just ordered a Nowlin just to take a look at them. The Brown's are alot like the Wilson's IMO. If George at EGW is making an extractor I would immediately assume it is a good one. I'll try one of those too. I have used the the Brownells stainless extrator ans was completely happy with it. Good part and held tension very well. Hope this helps.

_________________
Heirloom Precision, LLC.
480-804-1911

"If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking."
- General George Patton Jr

Hey Will - hope you didn't lose your damage deposit on your room at SHOT

The Wilsons are good. Like Steve, I've been playing with the new ones from Brownells, and am quite happy with the results.

_________________
CT Brian Custom
'Blending Art With Firepower'

Will, I'm currently using the Wilson BP ones, but just got and installed one of the Brownells SS units. It seems to be a fine part. I've used quite q few Caspians as well over the last few years, and was generally happy with theirs. One thing I liked about the Caspian extractors was that the firing pin stop slot was narrow and shallow, which meant that you had to fit the stop, and this reduced extractor movement and clocking. Interestingly, the Wilson unit is the only aftermarket extractor I've found so far that had all 3 relief chamfers on the hook from the maker. Most others have one or two, but not the third. This is one that I've always done by hand.

_________________
Don Williams
http://www.theactionworks.com
http://www.ltwguns.com

Anyone have any lcuk with these they look promising.

_________________
The only place you will find success without hard work is in the dictionary

It just so happens that not five days ago I found myself standing in front of a Rockwell tester and just happened to have a handful of extractors on me. 7 of the 19 were Wilson Bullet Proof. They were very consistent at 46; the lowest was 45 and the highest 46.5. One of them was stainless though and it was 52.

This shows they are consistent, but to be fair I didn't have but one or two each of the other brands I tested. They might be every bit as consistent. Had a group of three take-offs, all Colt I think, and they were more like 52, and, I'll have to check again, I think I had one way up to 56. Sounds too hard to me for something springy, but I have never broken a Colt extractor (nor any other, personally, for that matter).

I don't know what the original or ideal spec is regarding material and hardness, nor what anyone is using. I've used them all I think, and usually tend to gravitate towards the Wilson, 'cause like Steve said, they are well-defined.... I like the broad pad, too.

Thanks Steve, Tim, Don, and Ned for the replies!

Denny, I have not used a pistol with the AFTEC so I cannot comment but I am a little bit leary of the springs within the extractor. The Pro's may shed some more light on them.

Steve and Don, do you either of you fine gentlemen have the part number handy for the SS Brownells unit?

Don, what's so special about needing the third chamfer? Is it necessary for reliable function?

Tim, I didn't Funny thing is, that room was between your and mine. I thought it was you making all that racket Sounded like a zoo of some sort or rutting season!

The Brownells extractors:

078-000-031 blued series 70
078-000-032 blued series 80
078-000-033 SS series 70
078-000-034 SS series 80

--Mark

Mark, you got these dedicated to memory or as a favorite cookie on the browers

Thanks!

BTW, 2nd package for Scoutzilla is enroute to YoBo!

Ned, that is very interesting....

We check RC on extractors and if the part is 4140 USUALLY
a hardness number below 47 means the part will not hold tension. 47-50
The "Smith" is the first line of defense on extractors that do not hold tension (more tension and more important on 38 and 40 than 45's)
if the part bends into shape easly it will just as easly loose tension.

We went from 4140 to 4340 several years ago, and our guns returned for extractor tension loss and ejection problems went from 5 or 6 a year to one or less per YEAR! pretty KooL.

Wilson may well be using a different material.

as to breakage (my favorite subject) I have quite a few
one broke at the fp stop cut out, one through the ser 80 cut out
one in the middle of the front section between the hook and the bump
right on a machine mark (no surprise here) and a ton that sheared right off at the square hook.

I have never seen an aftec fail, and considering they are made for high round count guns that is a good sign.

geo

Indeed, George, the two EGW's were harder, I noticed. And comforting to note that all of yours I've seen come having been Rockwell checked already, mighty thorough of youse.

I've heard of Aftecs failing but don't have any real first-hand knowledge of same. I'm only one guy and certainly not as high-volume as some but both of my '80's-vintage carry guns have the stock Colt parts in 'em and I own only one 1911 that has an aftermarket (Nowlin I think) extractor in it-- actually it is not a pistol but an additional top-end made from gathered parts.

George, anything and everything you're willing to/have time to get into regarding extractors will fall on very interested ears. In particular, any comments on extractor length, like from the hook to the FP stop slot, would be good to hear.

Next time I'm Rockwelling I'll do a Thompson extractor just for fun, I just happen to have one (just the extractor ). It's very similar to a 1911 extractor, and has to snap over the rims as opposed to letting the rim slide up under it. They seem to hold up.

Bob Dunlap, former instructor at on of the gunsmithing schools and author/editor/whatever of a lot of those gunsmithing tapes coming out of AGI, says that "there is no reason that a properly manufactured and fit 1911 extractor should break from snapping over thousands of rounds." Not an exact quote, but close. His rational was that of a valve spring in a car and the number of cycles that it goes through in a day being more than most 1911s go through in a lifetime. While I was raised to always feed my gat from the mag, it do give pause for thought.

Hard to dispute the logic there. In springs it's all about the ratio of deflection to length. 'Nother words if a 1911 extractor was a foot long, snapping over a rim would be nothing. If it were only a half inch long and had to flex that much, it'd bend the first time. Same way with coil springs, the stroke on a 1911 5" is something like 1 3/8" (don't have a scale handy). If the recoil spring was a foot long that'd be a cakewalk for the spring. If the spring was 3" long, that'd be a short, hard life for the spring (and is why guns like Officers ACP's go through recoil springs faster). Now that I think of it I think the Thompson extractor is about the same length as that of a 1911 but without the "snake swallowed a rat" hump in the middle, meaning it has maybe twice the length over which to flex. O'course on a Thompson (if it's an M1 or M1A1) it's just there for extracting duds anyway since these guns are straight blowback and will run without an extractor.

The internal combustion engine vs/gun thing is how I rationalize using the same oil on guns as I use in the motorcycle. Running X-thousand RPM's for hours on end makes being a gun look easy! Any oil that'll handle the former will think it's on a beach in Mexico sipping Coronas doing the latter.

Yeh, he used the same rationale. Little flex from side to side on the extractor. Lotta flex on the valve spring. I'd be willing to bet that given a perfectly machined and fit slide, barrel, and extractor made of the correct alloy and perfectly heat treated, you probably would never have a problem. Given the mass produced parts out there now and the different specs that various manufacturers are using, good luck.
BTW, it used to be pretty common to grind off the bumps in the middle of the extractor shaft and polish the entire length. I even did some (copying an old bulls-eye shooter friend) when I first started messing with these things in the early 70's. Never saw one fail.
Er ...ahhh ...er, you got any cold Corona's close by (visualize mouth watering here)?

Will said I've read that the original print for the 1911 extractor included this chamfer, and have found that it aids in feeding, and I believe in ejection pattern, as it allows the case to pivot more easily to the rear during the ejection cycle. This chamfer can best be visualized by holding the extractor looking at the side with the hook facing toward you. The lower front corner of the hook should be bevelled (or chamfered) from the inside of the hook toward the front of the extractor on about a radius of .030 or so. This chamfer allows the rim of the topmost cartridge to more easily feed into the extractor , since it feeds upward on an angle rather than straight up (remember, the mag and grip are on about an 11 degree angle to the slide rails). Hope this helps,

_________________
Don Williams
http://www.theactionworks.com
http://www.ltwguns.com