ltwguns.com

HEllo everyone.

Just wondering if anybody else has had problems with scandium guns specifically revo's. I would also like to get the input of some of the masters on this. I am a little unhappy with mine and have had numerous problems with it. I dont know how smith finishes these but mine appears to have an enamel looking finish i guess. This seems to wear off quickly in a holster and the colored finish underneath wears to bare metal quickly after the coating flakes away. Smith has re- finished mine but I would like to have it done by one of you custom pros. mine is a md 340sc 357 and i love the way the gun carries but hate the action, and finish and a few other things. Any help would be greatly appreciated and any complaints would be as well. I am trying to see if the gun is worth putting some money into or not. My E-mail is beastridge@hotmail.com

_________________
"One thought he was invincible the other thought he could fly" well? "They were both wrong"
SIC VIS PACEM PARABELLEM

What function problems are you having? I'm interested in hearing about refinishing options, but more interested in hearing what type of mechanical or function problems you're having!

I've got a S&W 1911SC 4.25 and 1911PD 5 inch. I've put over 1000 rounds through each without any problems. The finish on both is very frail and I would also like to find a finish that would keep these guys looking new.

Mike

1timeranger is my son. The problems he has had with his Scan 357 are listed on the revolver section. Heres the text.

As the previous post says ,,,SCANDIUMS dont wear well. Here's a quick rundown for you. I bought a brand new one 340sc .357 in 9/2002. I began carrying and shooting it in march of '03. I love the weight of the gun. The finish flaked off BAD real bad like completely. it appeared to have almost like an enamel finish that doesnt like leather. There is a small raised area on the left side of the frame to retain the cylinder when it is unlatched for unloading/reloading...gone, the cylinder made of titanium cut through it like a hacksaw just from normal use. S@w was nice enough to fix the frame and the finish. These guns are great if you like to carry often and shoot little. Now that I am through ranting on this gun I am a Smith and wesson fan I.E. pre internal safety and pre scandium . Smith has been really fair about this and their t/a time for me was 6 days. I have a host of other complaints about the gun E-mail me and I'll share em all. Their customer service has been good to me so far.

_________________
Gary Eastridge
http://www.randgfirearms.com

Primer flow. I get it shooting the ole l.e. standard 125 fed jhp's. I personally have shot and owned several J-Frames and I have found that with a steady grip i can hit targets out to 80 with good frequency(pepper poppers not accuracy targes). My depts qual course has 17 of 50 rds fired from 25-50 yards and with a steel J its a breeze. With the primer flow the gun binds to the point shots 3-4-5 have about a 25lb trigger due to the primers unseating and binding the cylinder.

_________________
"One thought he was invincible the other thought he could fly" well? "They were both wrong"
SIC VIS PACEM PARABELLEM

Guys, I think your finish options on these Scandium guns may be pretty limited. Unfortunately, Smith chose to do away with the original separate cylinder retaining lug, and make it an integral part of the frame. Ordinarily, this isn't a problem, but I can see why the Ti cylinder would abrade it as badly as it has. Perhaps this can be helped by bevelling the back circumference of the cylinder. As far as the finish, I have heard that the Scandium can be anodized, and if so, that would be your best bet as far as wear. Other possible options would be Black-T, and some of the polymers, such as Gun-Kote. You also might check to see if electroless nickel would work on this gun. Hope this helps,

_________________
Don Williams
http://www.theactionworks.com
http://www.ltwguns.com

Don,
Have you refinished any of the scandium revolvers or pistols? Who would anodize scandium?
I guess I'll have to look around the pawn shops for something beat up to send you. Another project in the works.

_________________
Lester Wang

Lester, Based on my limited knowledge, I believe that anyone who can anodize aluminum can do Scandium. It's my understanding that the S&W guns have a minimal amount of Scandium in them mixed with aluminum alloy. The Scandium gives the aluminum more strength according to the articles I've read. I've never refinished any, but a call to any good plater who does anodizing OR S&W customer service might give you an answer.

_________________
Don Williams
http://www.theactionworks.com
http://www.ltwguns.com

Scandium is an alloying element used in Al to up the strength without making the metal brittle. It is used in much the same way nickel is used in steel.
From my limited knowledge of Sc, you should be able to anodize it as you would traditional firearm Al.
As for a wear free finish, the problem lies in the softer nature of aluminum. You can try things like ceramic coatings, such as SiC, BC, SiN, BN, WC, TiC, TiN, WC, WN, or even FeC3, all which can be vapor deposited on specific high wear areas, leaving the gun looking normal. However, they will crack and fail under any load that the aluminum will deform to. In other words, if a harder part impacts the coated aluminum part, the aluminum part, and consequently the coating will be damaged.


Bill

About three weeks ago I was at a shop that was featuring S&W handguns and factory representives also came. I asked about the finish not holding up and the rep told me users were cleaning with solvents that were too agressive. He said if you stick with Hoppes etc. you should be okay. The reason I asked was because I own, enjoy, and didn't want to do harm to my M325. Regards, Richard

Agressive solvents huh. Well I have used Hoppe's #9 all of my life and it has never damaged any of my guns except the 340 sc. Maybe the metallurgy mix in mine was wrong but this pos they call a scandium has about made its way to file 13 on a number of occasions. This is by far the most fragile frail non shooting over rated under performing gun i have ever owned and it will be the last new generation smith I ever buy. Any factory selling a gun that is marketed for a defensive carry pistol had at least better have some standard for durability. My personal opinion is these guns were designed for people that carry often and shoot little nothing wrong with that but my carry guns are for real and I trust my life to them but not this one and it is being replaced. I carried this gun everyday for 3 years and never had to use it thank god but now that i have done a little more with the gun I realize that its good It never came down to it. Smith and wesson Are a great gun but I think they have compromised function for weight and and to hell with there side lock safety ...just wait till you have to try and disassemble one that has locked itself just from shooting,,, yeah it happened to me dude. I know this started as a post on finishes but I hope that anyone carrying these guns for protection test and shoot them thoroughy before trusting his or her life to it.

_________________
"One thought he was invincible the other thought he could fly" well? "They were both wrong"
SIC VIS PACEM PARABELLEM

I got curious and called S&W. This is what I was told. There is a coating that is applied to the Scandium weapons and it is similar to a clear coat. Yes, Hoppes will also effect the finish on Scandium. I was advised to find Never Dull Wadding Polish and use it on my M325. The tech said it works well and will not effect the coating. It is available at Home Depot etc. Regards, Richard

PS I am going to try it.

Never dull ,,,having been in the army i have shined a lotta stuff with never dull,,,, is not a cleaning solvent it is a metal polish which yeah that is fine for polishing a stainless gun on the outside finish. but I am talking about stripping a revo down to clean grit and dirt and crap and pocket lint and all the other goodies that deposit themselves into the action and barrel and if you cant do this with out hurting tthe outside finish then what is the point.. I still have a hard time believing that smith actually told you to clean the gun with NEVER-Dull. Weird but by looking at the quality of their recent guns that gives me some good insight on the personnel that have been building their guns. Regards

also Thanks Richard for calling Smith,,I appreciate you taking the time to do that and post the info here.

_________________
"One thought he was invincible the other thought he could fly" well? "They were both wrong"
SIC VIS PACEM PARABELLEM

I am at wits end and for me that is a limited quantity. I love my M325 and I want to keep it looking as good as possible. How about using Dunk-Kit by Cylinder and Slide for cleaning the insides? Regards, Richard

onetime, I don't think any revo was designed to be torn down repeatedly.

You might be doing too much in an effort to preserve the gun and causing more problems than you're solving.

I never tear my revo's down and they all work fine. I've got an old model 19 that I've had over 20 years and I got it used. The sideplate hasn't been taken off ever that I know of.

Having started on the PD at a time when revolvers were still the duty weapon of choice. I thought I would weigh in. We were taught to routinely remove the sideplate to clean and lubricate the internals. I dont believe I have a Smith revolver that the sideplate hasnt been off of. Not sure you would do anymore damage by cleaning inside than you would by detail stripping a 1911.

_________________
Gary Eastridge
http://www.randgfirearms.com

I don't know, I'm just curious because I've got a 340sc and it shows little wear. It's in a pocket holster most of the time.

If your revolver only see's the target range maybe you can get 20 years out of one but if it sees hunting or duty use (rain, snow, dust etc) I would highly recommend a detail cleaning to include internals. I broke mine down 2-3 times a year. I also saw quite a few poorly maintained guns with rusty internals.

_________________
Gary Eastridge
http://www.randgfirearms.com

I tried the Never-Dull and it seems to work well on my M325. I guess the next thing is to run a lightly soaked Hoppe's #9 patch through the bore and wipe any excess off as soon as possible. Regards, Richard

I don't detail strip any revolver very often - more often a Ruger design double action I suppose than a S&W - but I do detail strip or at least look at the internals of any firearm before I do much with it. By no means an expert opinion just one man's practice.

I don't know, I carried a 686 for 5 years and never tore it down. It saw as much rain, dirt, french fry salt, fountain drinks etc. Nobody ever told me to tear it down.

Guess I've learned something.

Mine didnt see much french fry salt but probably too much donut glaze!! Knock all that out with a good cleaning, polish the rebound block, cut 2 coils off the rebound spring (according to the S&W LE rep) lube the hammer and trigger pin would probably take a pound or so off the DA pull.

I carried a 686 in 84. Think I had the 2nd one in OKC. Never had quite the action my 19 and 66 had so I went back to a K.

Seriously though I hope I didnt come off as a know it all on revolvers because I dont. I was trained to open them up and clean them as a routine. Probably why I didnt carry a Python. Never looked at cleaning the internals on a S&W as a big deal.

_________________
Gary Eastridge
http://www.randgfirearms.com

Well

This post has been open for a month and keeps getting hits. Just to clarify a bit I appreciate everbodies input. My main problem is this. I bought the scandium when it was relatively new,, that being said and having been around a truck load of smith pistols,j's,k's,l's and n's and owning a few of each,,,,I cleaned the scandium like a normal smith tear the b**tard down swab all the crud out reassemble load shoot. I did this with the help of hoppe's #9 a relatively mild solvent and all I got was a handful of flakes that used to be a gun finish. Well I was first off ticked off but smith refinished the gun for free and fixed a few things that were wrong with it from the get go. My point of this is in my experience the scandium is great for a pocket holster and occasional trip to the range but my .02 is this gun is not designed to be carried in leather for duty/backup shoot often work. I may have the runt gun of a fine litter but the conditions I carry this gun in are far from ideal. I am hacked off that I paid a good sum of money for a gun with a trusted name and was really let down by it. But it seems that there are a bunch of folks out there that are happy with theirs and have not had these problems and Richard if nothing else I hope I saved you having to ship your 625 off for a refinish(nice grips on it btw!). So my peace has been said if anybody has problems with these guns I like to hear about them but all of mine have been laid out now and from now on my b/u gun will be made of good ole steel.

_________________
"One thought he was invincible the other thought he could fly" well? "They were both wrong"
SIC VIS PACEM PARABELLEM

1time, I think you might have hit your problem when you said you use this gun as a work horse(my words not yours).


As bad as it sounds, the gun might not have been up to the task. I've put about 300rds through mine. More than enough to know what to expect recoil wise but not enough to scare me into a flinch. These things are great for a pocket and combined with the aftermarket tritium night sight and crimson trace grips that came with it. It's a nice package too. I stumbled into mine at a gun show I too a friend to. got it for cheap in the condition described. Seems the shooter got it, pimpified it and then shot it. stupid him lucky me.

Maybe try the Taurus Ti guns?

gary, as soon as I stop learning stuff is as soon as I stop breathing.