ltwguns.com

Got this one back the other day, with a well-documented 12K rounds through it. Not that that is so, so many but I don't often get to study a gun with an accurate round count on it, so it's pretty valuable info, a place from which to see what holds up and what works after a known amount of wear. It also helps me learn to be able to examine a gun and estimate its round count. I usually go right for the breech face for this and can call it pretty close but some guns are real foolers.

This project had a couple of themes-- as much stainless as possible, and as lightweight as possible, within budgetary reason, without using an aluminum frame. The first two pics show some of the lightening measures on the frame-- and extra window under the grip panels, low; holes under the grips just over the trigger track, and a window in the mag chute's rear wall just over the sear spring retaining slot:


lightening rr

Also, a hole under the barrel bed and feedramp, from the front, and a cut that actually hollows out the root of the front of the trigger guard, where it "grows" down from the dust cover:

lightening top

Lightening of the trigger is more of a standard measure for reducing its weight for trigger-bounce reasons. You can see also here the solid trigger stop I've fabbed. The grip safety has been whittled out on the inside, and.... whoa, what happened to that barrel!? That's why she came back-- a squib, a tap-rack-bang, or in this case, a tap-rack-kaBOOm.

barrel side w/gs, trig

Barrel from the inside:

barrel inside

Side view. Three major longitudinal cracks. A few more tried to start but it was over before they got too far. The case did not rupture and there was no damage to the mag or grips. Oh, yeah, and one of my favorite customers is OK too!

bbl burst side

Does black anodizing hold up well? This MSH is one I made from scratch from 7075 aluminum and had BA'd. All stainless parts were chrome sulphided by a place in CA that I thought had a lot of promise as a new finishing source for me. They also chromed the barrel and hammer and did a great job of it. The frame came back a little mottled-- which was not such a big deal but I wrote to ask it there was something I might have done or might do next time to prevent it. They were sorely offended and dissed me pretty bad so-- off the list they went. Anyway, as you can see here the finish on the stainless has taken something of a beating, not to say it is not good. This gun, besides the 12K rounds, has seen a lot of daily carry and several classes and competitions. It has been well used but well maintained, definitely not babied. But the black anodizing, hard as all get out, has held up well. Now, I did give the entire lower end a thin coat of black spray and bake to even out the aforementioned mottled apprearance.... this did not go onto the MSH however. This coat of paint is not stuck to the gun as well as it sticks to fresh Parkerizing but it has done its job in sorta "homogenizing" the color.

backstrap

Finish on the left rear of the slide takes a beating from wear and sweat,when carried IWB. The serrated front of the rear sight was used against a barricade to help initial efforts to get the gun apart after the incident. I think somewhere on the LTW there are pics of this when it was new
rr sight

This gun was built on a Caspian frame and slide and I must say they are holding up extrememely well. Wear on the breech face woulda fooled me into saying 600 - 1,000 rounds had been fired through it. Barrel locking recesses are likewise unbattered. Slide to frame fit is still fine.

More later.

Cool Ned
I have been lucky enough that the few squibs I have had in competition haven't gone far enough in the barrel to allow another round behind it.
I now reload standing up with a light that shines directly into the case, I check to see the powdered dumped each time.
I kind of just did the samething with my Nowlin. I have hit the 11k to 13k mark with it (I had an accurate count going, but misplaced (lost) the paperwork!!!) and stripped it down to plan frame and slide and checked everything over to see if there was any unusal wear marks, nothing so far.

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Jake Martens
Indianapolis, IN
https://www.facebook.com/USPSAIndiana

very interesting ned, thanks for the pics and prose.-cameron

Thank God no injuries . Thanks for the details on this. Very interesting.
Lenny

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Show 'em where you live....

Very interesting.
When I was an Aircraft Mech with an airline, I always enjoyed looking over components that were torn down in overhaul: Seeing wear patterns, what held up and what did not, etc. Same idea here.

I shot an IDPA match this weekend, and two shooters on my squad fought squibs early on. Having seen the results of SMG "squib-booms", I was more than happy to share my ammo so they would stop hoping theirs would heal itself. Your pics show what could have happened.

Aside from your usual stupendous work, I think I'm most impressed at how that anodizing held up. That's good stuff.
I like the lightening hole under the barrel bed and feedramp. I can imagine hearing "experts" stating how that would cause frame cracks, global warming, and so on. Obviously, it hurts nothing.

Thanks for sharing.
I wouldn't mind seeing pics of that gun assembled. I don't recall seeing it on here, but will look.

Here's a post my customer did when he first got the pistol:
http://www.pistolsmith.com/viewtopic.ph ... highlight=

WOW

Ned,

With all of the machine work on the frame and slide, how much weight was removed?

Thanks

Nothing from the slide-- maybe a couple OZ's from the frame if we were lucky. I never really checked it.

Ned, what type of barrel is that? I lloks like it held up pretty good under the circumstances. Was there any other damage to the gun. I am assuming the mag and the mag release are toast.

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"Domari Nolo"

Thanks, Mark. I shoulda known that was here, too.

The barrel was a Wilson (and so's the new one). Far as I know even the mag was undamaged-- the case never blew. The mag catch is fine. Shot the gun maybe 30X today and it's good to go except the sight-in is lost with the new barrel. I have to make a new bushing anyway since the old one got ChannelLoc'd getting the gun apart, so I will offset its bore to bring the sight-in back in (it's only a few inches off at 28 yards).

A few more comments about wear and tear after 12,000 rounds. I need to clean the burst barrel and take a look at the leade, but from previous experience I expect to find it devoid of any annular tool marks, that is, all the lines and wear marks will probably be going in the direction of bullet travel, just from wear. There will probably be some lines that go straight, even after the rifling starts; these I believe are from bullets that are "slow starters" and skid into the rifling a bit before they start turning. Cast lead ones maybe. there might be a few relatively deep scratches-- these I figure are bullets that had on them, or picked up, some piece of dirt or fouling that was hard enough to gouge the barrel steel. When I say "gouge", I mean maybe .001 deep or so, just enough that it stands out a bit.

I gave the sear nose a real minor touch up to crispen-up the trigger a little. It was not in serious need but it's a little better now. The safety detent was a tad on the loose side-- maybe it's exaclty the way I set it and my personal specs have changed, maybe it wore-in just a tad, not sure. I stiffened it up a bit.

The customer had put O-rings under the grip screws, they go between the underside of the screw head and the top ofthe bushing. This gun has the standard thin-grip screws and bushings as available in various places. They are OK but lately I'm not crazy about them and whenver I can, for use with thin grips, I prefer to just shorten standard bushings and screws and use them-- I think this setup is somewhat more robust than the thin-grip bushings and screws. Anyway, he was having trouble with the screws coming loose but did not want to Loctite them in, so he found some O-rings the right size, and according to him they don't come loose any more. Good going.

Other than that there don't seem to be any wear or battering issues, it seems to be holding up to a diet of mostly WW white-box 230 FMJ quite well.

Wow, I'm in such awe at the knowledge on this site. Its like NASA-for-Nineteen-Eleven. I keep wanting to build one myself, but I think I'll keep gunsmithing with my Visa for awhile!

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God Bless
45Fundi

I remember that gun well. When I first saw it, I thought, "that is a truly bullet-proof sight". Nice to see your art being properly utilized as a specialized tool.

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damian@adcofirearms.com
http://www.adcofirearms.com

I saw this one in person while visiting Ned's shop. I must agree with Ned on the amount of wear appearing less than the round count. Aside from the finish on the exterior from carrying, there didn't appear to my untrained eye to be any extreme or unusual wear from the round count. I didn't see any real wear on the rails aside from the obvious finish wear, and that just showed the quality of the slide to frame fit as it ran the length of the frame.

I have had several 1911's with a lot less rounds show a lot more wear on the parts.


Nice pistol and I am sure it will be up and running soon. Look forward to seeing another post after the next 12,000 rounds.

Todd

Well from my limited knowledge I would think that a pistol set up properly from the beginning would be the way to go. I don’t know but maybe this contributes to the reason that this pistol after many rounds still looks and functions like a pistol with far fewer rounds.Maybe this particular pistol would not have seen as many rounds or looked as good as it does if Ned had not set it up properly from the get go. Just one thought.
My duty pistol was set up by Mr. Rogers. This was not a full-blown custom build from scratch but a pistol I had used and then sent off to Chuck. It’s the best damn pistol I have ever owned in my opinion. It also has many more rounds down range than any other pistol I own or have owned. To my untrained eye it does not appear to have as many rounds as I have fired and logged through it. I believe that it looks so good (internally) and functions perfectly because it was set up properly by one hell of a pistol smith! (Thanks again Chuck!) I will have 12k through this gun and I have no doubt that it will still be a stellar performer at that round count as well as many more.

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09/11/01
Never forget, Never forgive

I saw that gun. I took a few photos of it when it was new. Interesting kb! and a testament to just how tough JMB made his creations.

Is the customer keeping/kept the sight, or going with the new belt-racker design?

exceptionally informative post

i couldn't possibly get as much out of looking at a used gun as your inside look and insights provided

thanks

kevin

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"We did it for each other."

--- Harvill W. Lazenby, Squad leader, B Company, 505 Regimental Combat Team, 82nd Airborne, WWII--survivor of three combat jumps. One of the great ones that we owe so much.

We left the sight alone on this one.

Ned-

I know this is an old thread, but has this one been back in for a tune up?

Thanks

Probably won't see it again until..... another busted barrel

I certainly hope not!

Great thread. I love the look of worn custom pieces. There is something wonderful about the looks of a purpose-made pistol that has been taken out and used hard.

But, there is something here I just don't get.



How do that work?

I know Ned is a master of metal blending, but it looks like there are scallops where straight lines should be. How does the MS slide in?

ML

It does not slide in. It must be precision teleported. Kinda makes field maintenance more difficult but with the molecular seal between the two parts there is less need for it.

It looks to me as though the MSH and frame were machined while assembled, giving it that blended look. The seam between the two parts lies along the row of small shiny high points. The reason it looks so odd is due to the uneven wear of the finish on the frame as opposed to the MSH.

Rick

There's one in every crowd-- somebody who does not believe in magic....

Exactly right, Rick. The pattern is put on while the MSH is in the frame.

I was believing the teleporting stuff. It explained a lot about how he does stuff.

ML

Ned,

This is great information and I have followed the posts very closely. Thanks for sharing it with us.

Rob

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We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm. George Orwell

Rob,
This thread has the makings of a great article by YOU and Ned. You and Ned should put your heads together (scarry as that thought sounds!!). I would bet it would be a great success and would be one of those articles that many would cut out of the magazine and save. The information contained in the thread (and the subsequent article) along with Ted's narritive is priceless.
Best regards,
Jeffro

That's a great idea!