ltwguns.com

I have been completely in awe of the work done by the master gunsmiths on this forum. My question is, How do you all feel about the Colt series 80 guns from a custom standpoint? I know that some states require these on late model guns, and that the tolerances, caliber choices, and styles favor the series 80 guns. The metal is also more durable I presume than the prewar Colts. Certainly the two most intriguing custom Colt builds in my opinion would be the Delta Elite and the 9X23. Do you replace these parts with more durable failsafe and peen-proof custom pieces, or do you eliminate the function altogether and use a dummy lever like the one sold by Brownell's? I won't get in to the politics or the abomination stuff, and I know about the legal implications of removing a lawyer device. My interest is in the gun from a Murphy's law standpoint, and that law would certainly favor fewer moving parts, especially when considering that it may cause the gun to jam or not fire, as opposed to just not locking back the slide or not letting the mag drop freely or some other lesser important function. Your thoughts are appreciated.

I don't do '80 series Colts.

I am not a gunsmith but have paid a few a considerable sum over the years. I carry daily and when I carry a 1911 (about 50% of the time) I carry a S80 LW Commander. I have never had a problem with the S80's safeties. Owned and own quite a few. I was in law enforcement for 25+ years and still am to a lesser degree. While I have not seen anyone climb a 20 foot ladder and intentionally drop their sidearm, I HAVE seen them skipping down the side walk during foot chases, dropped from varying heights while climbing obstacles (IE fences, vehicles etc) and other such unintentional incidents that drop tests are meant to replicate. My little brother actually had his SW 65 shoot out the car window and skip across the parking lot when he drove his cruiser into an immoveable object (concrete light pole base) while chasing a hijacker.

While the possibilty exists for the S80 components to cause a malfunction if not properly maintained the same can be said for most components.

Thats just my opinion. And we all know what opinions are like.

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Gary Eastridge
http://www.randgfirearms.com

Properly set up, there's not a thing wrong with an 80 series gun. If you let a hack or a hobbyist loose inside one, you've got problems. Since your post was directed at those who are fully capable of building quality pistols, I think you'll find this sentiment to be supported universally.

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Heirloom Precision, LLC.
480-804-1911

Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing.

TR

What Ted said.

Organizations such as the American Pistolsmith Guild have rules against taking out functional safeties such as the Series 80 linkage.

Properly tested and tuned, you can pull some sweet trigger pulls out of the S80 pistols.

Thanks,
Bob

To each his own.

I have absolutely no problem with Series 80 guns. In fact, both of my personal carry guns are so equipped.
The key here is 'competent gunsmith'.

Mr. Sample,
You have hijacked this thread and answered a simple question with another personal rant. May I ask you to please edit your posts?

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http://www.rogersprecision.com

FWIW, I have been in LE for quite some time now and have no idea how that translates into whether or not the Series 80 parts should stay in a gun. I have both and carry both but despite what you do for a living the Series 80 parts are not an issue whatsoever when tuned properly. Civilian guns need to go bang just like ours do. In a world where we legislate to combat against stupidity and neglect that kind of stuff is here to stay.

And just for arguments sake I carry a stainless S80 Commander a good part of the time. Lots of rounds through it and it runs just fine.

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Heirloom Precision, LLC.
480-804-1911

"If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking."
- General George Patton Jr

I couldn't have said it any better my self.

Mr. Sample, was there a point to your diatribe?

FWIW, I am nowhere near a professional gunsmith but the Series 80 parts in a custom gun don't bother me a bit so long a it was done by a competent professional.

I can't tell the difference between a Series 80 or Series 70 gun when a qualified competent smith has worked it over. I have NEVER had an issue with a Colt Series 80 gun failing to fire (I only use Colts with Series 80 type parts). I'll bet if you have heard about such an incident, it was your cousin's uncle's brother's sister's boyfriend's brother's 1911 after he did a home trigger job on it.

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John Del Pinto

Thanks for the replies. My first exposure to the full custom guns was actually through the special edition of Guns and Ammo's "Book of the 1911" magazine from March of 1995. I have to say that I thought the picture of Jeff Cooper underneath one of Ted Yost's guns was actually Ted!!

The three Yost guns in the article were all series 80's, and those three are my idea of the ultimate custom handgun (when I am able to save up the dough). It is interesting that many of you smiths actually carry Colt 80's when you could have your pick of any series 70 gun or custom caspian build, etc. To hear the other 1911forum jockeys and gunstore commandos talk, you will be cursing JMB and jeopardizing yourself and life and limb, blah blah blah

Think nothing of it. People were always mixing us up

_________________
Heirloom Precision, LLC.
480-804-1911

Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing.

TR

Both my carry guns are S80, but that is just happenstance and not necessarily preference. Since they aren't something I wanted 3-pound triggers on it was not an issue. I don't necessarily feel safer for having the S80 parts in there-- I have tried and been unable to make one of these things (1911 with no S80 stuff) fire from being dropped muzzle-first from 6'. I do intend to try harder some day when I get the chance.

There is a disassembly/reassembly convenience issue, or at least there used to be for me. I've done it so many times now it's no biggie. There can be a 'timing" problem with them, especially when an overtravel stop is used with the trigger and downstream movement is not checked/adjusted. I have had one-only actual issue with the S80 parts causing a problem--- a single, large grain of sand found its way into the firing pin block and locked up the whole system-- I could not drop the hammer. I believe that if I'd pulled really hard I might have bent the upper lever, allowing the hammer to drop, but in that condition the lever would not have liftedthe plunger out of the firing pin's way, causeing a misfire. Or maybe the grain of sand would have broken or moved out of the way and all would have been well.

I find the S80 system adds 1/2 to 3/4 pound to the trigger pull, not a biggie unless you must have a 3 pound trigger. That means a 2 1/2 pound trigger actual, plus the S80 added weight. I've never attempted it.

So basically I'm not concerned that they're there nor comforted. If I were using S70 guns I'd be equally ambivalent.

While I am not by any means a compitent smith, and very much the "hack and hobbiest" spoken of above, I do have something to offer on this subject. There have been quite a few documented cases of people using a gun to defend themselves and later being procecuted partially on the basis of their gun having been modified to remove one of the functioning safeties. I recall readining about a case in florida in particular where a guy removed the magazine safety from a high power, and the procecutor used that against him.

Not really the information you were looking for, but something to consider.

Sorry for the hijack.

Some days I carry a S80. Some days my wife carries a S80. My daughter carries a S80. Her husband carries a S80.

No problems. Same with the hundreds that I've built for customers. No problems. It's a good system. Not necessary, IMHO, but since it's there, it's there. It can be tuned wonderfully.

Now - Let me tell everyone reading this one thing for sure. If you get involved in a serious social encounter and are using a gun that has had a factory safety removed or disconnected - you are in for 3000 miles of bad road in the courtroom.

There are getting to be too many 'kitchen table internet commando gunsmiths' out there. The advice you get from them is worth every bit that you pay for it.

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CT Brian Custom
'Blending Art With Firepower'

My Novak built IDPA gun has 25,000 plus rounds thru it. The 80 series parts are all there, never any problems.

One reason why any carry gun I own has a trigger pull within the minimum 5 Lb. factory Colt pull weight. A prosecutor I know personally made an argument based on a revolver used in self defense having a trigger job well below the factory standard, BTW his argument did'nt work and I don't know if there was a civil suit. Good advice ...Beware of
dropping the weight of your trigger below factory standard cause youneverknow.

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My future's determined by Thieves, thugs, and vermin
My rights are denied by Those least qualified
Everything's backwards In Americana

Mr. Rogers. Thanks for your input. Consider it done!

I personally have run the same SS S80 Colt 5" for 7+ years on duty wth 30 to 35 grand in rounds to boot....and no major problems have come from the S80 linkage. The great Chuck himself has graced my sidearm with some "basic" work (if you could ever put basic and Chuck together...uh no) only to make its life longer. Just a fact of life for LEO's. Thanks.

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-Ethan J.A.

<~~~ Not a smith. But, I have been in LE for more than 30 years and have carried some flavor of 1911 for almost all of that time. It makes very little difference to me weather I carry a S'80 or below, but there have been some incidents I've observed that makes me lean toward the '80:

-- I experimented with carrying a Detonics MK IV in an ankle rig for a few weeks. I couldn't get used to it, but I almost shat when I noted the deep indentation in the primer of the chambered round after I unloaded it. I guess with each step I got closer to a bang.

-- After reading about an old Texas Ranger who said that whenever he pistol whipped someone with his Colt auto it always went off, I put a primed case in an old evidence gun (destined for the deep blue sea) and whacked a 2X4 and a heavy bag. It went off twice as I recall in about ten whacks. It possibly had a weak FP spring, as I was not savvy enough to think of it back then.

I don't think I would take out the S'80 parts because you never know when an attorney will read a gun magazine and get the brilliant idea that I did something wrong.

In fact, I intend to put titanium FPs in my S'70s some day if I get around to it.

ML